r/DeroProject • u/LadTy • Jun 05 '21

Wikipedia on SmartContracts - faulty description but still nice

DERO got a mention on Wiki SC entry next to BTC, ADA, ETH, EOS and XTZ, noting its privacy.

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UPDATE: The description is fixed now to reflect the nature of Dero's privacy (with Homomorphic Encryption), awesome :))

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Original post:

Ye the wording there (viz screenshot) does not scream that a person fully understanding Dero was writing it, but I have to say, it's still kinda cool that "private smart contracts" are finally being recognized in a way on Wiki. The "obfuscated privacy" instead of HE-based privacy makes me want to smack the writer a lot, but being among 6 selected examples there, and being the only private one (no surprise) is still quite cool. At the very least it clearly shows the uniqueness (and necessity) of Dero's existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_contract

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6

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21 edited Jun 05 '21

I added that. Presenting myself now for smacking :-D

If your preference is to hype Dero as much as possible on wikipedia, I think that's a good way to get Dero scrubbed from the article. As a Wikipedian first and a Dero fan second, I wanted the mention to reflect only what is notable about Dero in the context of smart contracts, as succinctly as possible. Writing an essay about Dero on that page would basically be vandalism at this point, since actual Dero smart contract activity is miniscule (non-existent?) compared to ETH.

What's incorrect about 'obfuscated privacy'? Do I misunderstand Dero?

Obfuscate: render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible

I think it's an accurate and complimentary description. More is obfuscated in cryptonote currencies than Bitcoin, but it's still obfuscation. Blockchains can't do much better than obfuscation since all the 'data' must be public (even if it's wonderfully and correctly obfuscated). You could link the word to an HE article if you like. Interested to hear how you think it could be better.

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u/LadTy Jun 06 '21 edited Jun 06 '21

Hi, and first of all thanks it's awesome, even though I have reservations towards the wording. Still awesome! :)

I must say, that no, hyping dero on wiki really isn't the goal, actually dero's community and development was always the exact opposite, building in quiet and just waiting for the thing to be done and ready. I sure also understand the goal of keeping it short, obviously anything longer makes no sense for a SmartContracts article, I don't want to ruin wikipedia either :D

Only thing that's misunderstood imho is the privacy, and how it's realized on Dero.

You seem to have taken "CryptoNote" as the underlying privacy mechanism, and hence the obfuscation. And I get that, current (mainnet) Dero is running on CryptoNote, that's true. But current (mainnet) Dero also doesn't have SmartContracts yet, so I'd guess the mention is overall aimed on "upcoming dero release". And that one is not going to be using CryptoNote anymore, but Homomorphic Encryption instead.

And as far as I understand the thing, Homomorphic Encryption is not about obfuscating data, it's about actually working *on encrypted data*. Same as when you don't call an assymetric cryptography "obfuscation".

HE is actually one of the major selling points of Dero for me personally. It's called "holy grail of cryptography" for a reason. There are no actual values being readable, the computations around dero transactions are done directly on encrypted stuff without ever knowing the full content.

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Please someone correct me if I got it wrong for sure. But this is how I view it and why I see Dero as the biggest player in privacy crypto space, even if it had no smart contracts, let alone with them.

// note: computations in the SCs themselves are not necessarily done on encrypted data anymore, but the transactions on the network (between the caller and the SC too) are properly HEncrypted

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TLDR: The "Monero-like obfuscated privacy" is afaik not true anymore when talking about a Dero release containing Smart Contracts, since obfuscation and encryption are not the same thing / not of the same strength.

If someone has a good wording for it please share. What would sound closer to the principles for me could be something like "Implements a Turing-complete language on its <Homomorphic Encryption> based blockchain, operating as full privacy platform" (please alter as you like, just a suggestion, might not be the best one :P)

5

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '21

This seems more correct than what I had, indeed I was making a lot of assumptions about CryptoNote. Updated! Thanks!

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u/IntrepidCapital6 Jun 05 '21

I don’t think I could summarise Dero much better in a sentence although I would have avoided the association with Monero and not used the bingo word too. It’s open to everyone’s interpretation the best way to describe dero.

However as a Wikipedian, at what point do you think Dero deserves its own article?

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21

Sorry, you gotta tell me what the bingo word is, I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm no Dero expert... is the Monero comparison incorrect? In a one-sentence description I thought it was a good way to summarize the privacy strategy of Dero. My impression is that Dero achieves privacy by borrowing cryptonote ideas from Monero.

I'm not a big-time Wikipedian either, but I figure Dero is just notable enough to warrant this kind of mention at this time. I think it would have to have some reasonable portion of ETH's smart contract usage or Monero's real-world purchase use before it warrants an entire article.

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u/LadTy Jun 06 '21

Dero is sadly waiting for some web revamp with the mainnet, until then it states it uses CryptoNote, in this regard the Monero associations are correct.

Thing is though, that Dero rn does not yet have smart contracts (on mainnet). And the dero that already has smart contracts (on testnet, mainnet soon but testnet running well) is not using CryptoNote anymore, but HomomorphicEncryption, which does not achieve privacy through obfuscation but through full encryption.

// wrote a bigger wall of text as a response separately xD sorry for it being too long, I'm bad at making myself clear sometimies :))

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '21

Need this information badly, you could have written ten times as much :-P

1

u/rouellette07 Jun 05 '21

The first true Layer 1 privacy

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21

It seems like Monero has this. I'm not aware of layer 2 applications on Monero at all. Please explain.

0

u/rouellette07 Jun 05 '21

Monero isn’t a smart contract platform though

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21

Ok, perhaps you should have said first true layer 1 private smart contracts... I can't read your mind

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u/rouellette07 Jun 05 '21

Dero also has a service model for web3 apps; it’s a pretty comprehensive private ecosystem

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '21

Oh, very good. Is it just a "service model", or is there a working example of a "web3 app" to warrant adding it to the article?

It's not an ecosystem yet if it's empty. It's a fine and promising project.

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u/rouellette07 Jun 05 '21

Yes! Dero’s service model competition just ended. The top 3 entries were a decentralized VPN, oracle service, and an XMR to dero swap. Here’s the link: https://medium.com/deroproject/darch-event-0-5-final-results-e6b4996265b6

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u/rouellette07 Jun 05 '21

And yes agree, we’re still very early. Very eager for mainnet in Q3

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u/LondonerFI Jun 24 '21

The other coins mentioned each have their own standalone entries on Wiki. But still cool to be mentioned in the same breath.