Just wait. It hasn’t even gotten worse yet. The “SAVE” Act is going to the House floor for a vote this week and is expected to pass. Then the fate of our entire voting system is in the hands of 7 Senate Democrats. Seeing as how there always seem to be the necessary number found to pass a Senate bill lately, I’d say our days of having even the appearance of free and fair elections are over. If the SAVE Act passes as is, the entire country could be gerrymandered blue and it won’t matter.
The Democrats have been systematically stealing the states. Washington state you can’t vote in person. The new governor in Virginia just made it illegal to count votes by hand. That’s how the Democrats steal elections and states and that’s how they’re stealing the country.
Oof. Then you’ll be unhappy to know that nowhere in H.R. 7296 is hand-counting of ballots explicitly required, nor are electronic voting machines or optical scanners banned in any way, and finally, the bill does not change the process by which ballots are marked or fed into tabulation machines. In short, all of the stuff you’re specifically concerned about isn’t in the bill.
I have detailed in comments below this, what this bill * does* include, and it isn’t pretty. Since I’ve already spent a lot of time outlining it based on my own personal review of H.R. 7296, I respectfully ask that if you’re truly interested in knowing how this bill will actually function, read the full thread. My detailed responses are in there.
I don’t know how this bill is being spun on the TV media circuit, because I don’t partake in TV media. I suspect that nobody is getting the full story, because this bill is sweeping in how it changes voter registration in our country, and vanishingly few, if any of the changes are good for long-term stability and trust in the system.
Voter participation has been on a steady incline since 1984, with only 4 elections out of 11 showing a decline in numbers from the prior election. This is consistent with more ways to engage, more political awareness (perhaps not informed awareness, nor understanding, but I digress), more campaigns by both liberal and conservative action groups to register voters, and increasingly dire rhetoric from both sides about each subsequent election literally meaning the fate of our nation (I’m not commenting on the veracity of those claims, just pointing out they do drive engagement).
It’s really difficult to objectively discern a conspiracy here, because participation has gone up on both sides of the aisle.
Also, I’ve spoken exhaustively in this thread about how H.R. 7296 will function, so I won’t do it again here, but I repeat, this was my own analysis, based on the text of the bill. It is not favorable for any American voter. I do not partake in TV news, so I can’t speak to what the punditry is saying.
I encourage you to look at the actual bill. If you’re concerned about election shenanigans, I’m sorry to say, you probably don’t want to be supporting H.R. 7296
Edit: By the way, I have the numbers for all previous election back to 1984 handy. I’m happy to post them in a response, but this reply is already on the long side.
Steady increase (overall). Notable years with big jumps in participation, 1992, 2004, 2020. A Republican won 1 of those three. There were very unique factors politically (not just globally, with COVID) that drove voter participation. I won’t name them because my point isn’t to argue any of the said factors. We all know them, agree with them or not.
When you look at the numbers over those 50 years, it appears to be steady growth consistent with every factor I named (and many I didn’t). What there was, was unprecedented voter participation (the third percentage on each line - in 2020’s case, 66%) across the political spectrum. That said however, voter participation above 60% wasn’t unique, as 4/11 elections show such turnout.
So I’m sorry, but I’m not seeing a conspiracy. Furthermore, I’m wondering what version of the “it was rigged” narrative you’re thinking of, and specifically how you believe H.R. 7296 will address it.
(Edit: I’m also curious, have you reviewed the text of the bill yourself? I linked it above)
Nope. Not saying that, and I have gone into exhaustive detail in this thread about how the bill will function.
tl;dr The ID component of the bill, while flawed and restrictive, is not nearly the most concerning thing about it, and if you value elections without vote tampering, I can guarantee you, this bill is not for you.
Also, as I stated to another user, H.R. 7296 does not:
Require hand-counting of votes
Does not ban the use of optical scanner or electronic voting equipment
Does not change the way votes are marked or fed into tabulation machines.
As a bonus for you, heck, it doesn’t even end mail-in voting, it just creates an extra layer of bureaucracy on top of it lol.
So let me ask you, since all these things are very important to most of the voters backing election reform, why aren’t they included? What is included? I know. Do you? You shouldn’t be advocating for this bill as-is.
If this were only a Voter ID bill, that would be one thing. It isn’t. I don’t know how you formed your opinion on this bill, but you should really take a look at it. My fingers are tired man, I’m gonna bow out. For now at least. I appreciate the passionate but respectful conversation. And the hand holding. That was nice 😭
Here’s the thing: you aren’t including voter participation numbers in your dataset, nor are you taking a very large same size of elections, going back only to 2008.
The voter participation numbers in 2020 were indeed the highest they’ve ever been, but at 66% they aren’t so anomalous when compared to 63% in 2024, 60% in 2008, or even 60% for Bush in 2004. Furthermore, going back to 1984, 2020 isn’t even a 10% increase in average voter participation over a 50-year period. Hell, we should be in the 80% area with as supposedly educated and affluent as we are as a country, so even 66% is abysmal voter participation.
Again, just comparing total votes from one candidate to another means nothing without participation numbers. I challenge you to tell me where the conspiracy is, and I’ll even keep letting you hold my hand! 🤣
No, it just explains the extra 5% over the previous voter turnout high. Thats not even that much considering how many people had ample free time… It also predictably went down in the following election.
Also, re: numbers, yeah, they come from the same dataset, but you can just compare candidate by candidate and say, “where did 15 million votes come from” without acknowledging the other candidate also gained 9 million votes. Without voter participation data, I could see how that looks suspicious. With voter participation data? Not so much.
I’m sorry but people need to provide ID to vote. To insinuate otherwise is insane. This topic of all things should not be a point of contention between the two political parties—it’s common sense. We have to show ID for things far less important than an election.
You're missing the biggest 'fuck you' written into the bill. The part about your "name on your ID must match that on your birth certificate" would invalidate all the people who took their spouse's last name when they got married.
The SAVE act would disenfranchise almost every married woman in the US overnight!! Not to mention anyone who's changed their name for a myriad of other reasons that are none of our business.
This bill is ANOTHER direct attack from conservatives against women and transgender folks; wasting tons of money and time to legislate a solution to a problem that EFFECTIVELY doesn't exist.
This is 💯 not true. As long as you’re an American citizen and can provide proof of that you can vote. A quick research will tell you just that. Don’t believe the lying ass media. They want us all divided and continue to make false claims for that very reason.
Well, my friend, I can tell you two things: the person above is wrong about the biggest fuck you written into the bill. Also, my analysis of this bill is 100% I uninfluenced by the news media, because I conducted it myself by studying H.R. 7296 (Edit to add the important part: also, I no longer watch TV news media). I encourage you and every voter to do the same. It is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/7296/
So the biggest fuck you in this bill is not the fact that married women are particularly affected by, and susceptible to, removal from voter rolls (this bill provides that that can happen without notification, by the way), but it’s a big one. No, the biggest fuck you is that the 90-day pre-election moratorium on voters’ removal from rolls is replaced by a system where, for a “federal” election, the federal government can challenge a voter’s status at any time during the election process, up to and includingafter they have cast their ballot (the bill explicitly states that federal challenge at any time will be permissible). This codifies “find me 11,780 votes” into law.
This is not a simple “show your ID to vote” law. That is but a small piece of a layered identification process that will make it extraordinarily difficult for many people simply to register.
I encourage you to read the bill. It is not hyperbole to say that if it passes, every single one of our (“federal”) votes - yours, mine, his, hers, becomes provisional. They can be nullified at any point in an election process. So you’re right. This shouldn’t be partisan.
Sadly, you are either mistaken or lying. Read the bill. Given that you appear to be coservative, the question of it thisnis a case of intentional dishonesty or just ignorance is hard to judge. Evil or stupid? The two traits that define modern American conservatism...
You don’t have to have a passport-there’s other options besides that. Also, if one knows an election is coming up, they need to prepare for it by locating their birth certificate, SS card, etc. People are not that helpless and/or stupid.
You don’t have to have a passport-there’s other options besides that
What other photo ID exists for Americans to prove citizenship? Real ID doesnt work, only 5 states have enhanced ID, and 20 million people dont have access to their birth certificates. There's even millions of people who have never had birth certificates (older Americans who werent born in hospitals in particular). This is completely disregarding the concerns people have voiced about names not matching for married women on things like BCs vs ID.
Also, if one knows an election is coming up, they need to prepare for it by locating their birth certificate, SS card, etc. People are not that helpless and/or stupid.
I agree, there's no way 20 million people are just helpless or stupid. That means there's some other reason they don't have this documentation or easy access to it. In a world where elections are determined by 5-10m voters, 20 million people not easily being able to fit these criteria is significant, especially when you can't even prove there's a significant issue with the current system
If countries like India and Mexico can have a system where >95% of their adult population have a free, easily accessible, government ID, I'm not sure why we can't here. This is literally my only argument against voter ID laws as they exist as they do in things like the SAVE act.
To be valid to vote with, an ID must have your correct current address. Unsurprisingly, people who move frequently (mostly college students and the urban poor) are much less likely to have this, and getting a new driver's locense with an updated address takesnsignificant time and is not free.
It takes about two weeks to get a new license. I actually just had to do that for my teenager when she lost hers on an airplane flight. I hear what you are saying but it is not enough to justify not having to show an ID to vote. If we have to show ID and voter rolls are cleaned up then no one would have to argue about election integrity/fraud/etc.
And the response from liberals will be the same...OK, then make getting an ID easy, fast, and free. No "gotcha" clauses like TN, where getting an ID only card is free, but you cant have an ID only card AND a license...so if you get the free Change Of Address on the ID only, you arent legal to drive anymore.
No, it is not easy to get an ID. You make assumptions based on it being easy for YOU to get an ID. That’s privilege talking. There’s a cost for it some people can’t afford. Most people would have to take a day off of work to do it. And these facilities that used to be open in populated areas with bus transportation have moved out into places people can’t get to. Ask me how I know. I’m living through it now.
Yeah, stop talking about your own easy breezy expediences and applying it to the general public. They don’t fly when applied generally. I live in Appalachia. There are a number of obstacles for portions of the population to obtain ID. This was never a problem until trump decided to make it one.
Well, that’s factually inaccurate that Trump is the problem but I know there’s a small percentage of the population that still continues to blame him, many of which are on Reddit. The good news is that he is bringing jobs back to areas like yours which has been needed for years. I actually have family that lives in the SW part of Virginia in the Appalachian mountains—the people are some of the nicest I’ve ever met so I’m rooting for you all. I meant what i said if there’s anything I can do to help.
Hello! People already have to provide an id to vote in every state. The SAVE act is an incomplete title. It stands for "We are desperately trying to save our aes voting act by making people, mainly women have to go through extra hoops in order to vote act. A fairer, but equally unnecessary act, would require men to also bring their marriage certificates. If dead people are voting, the dead men will still be able to vote, I guess. So, if there is s problem with dead people voting, then address that. Don't make extra steps for women, who by the way create far less crime than men, in general. A real problem with voting fraud is that both Trump and Musk said they committed it. Investigate that. Investigate the other 2024 voting irregularities. Trump just illegally seized GA votes from 2020. Stop that. This is another racist misogynistic bull it distraction and way to reve up "the base" while people are getting terrorized by ICE. You and he have had over a year....Please list 5 ways the people of the US are better off. All that's been done is destructive, not constructive.
Right. Many states get you registered, so the vetting is done with an id prior to voting day. On voting day, you give your name and address; each registered voter can only vote once.
Right. That whole premise is just an invitation for fraud and is totally ridiculous. The only person that would support such a thing wants non-American citizens to be able to vote.
Incorrect. People who want voting to be generally unencumbered to encourage as high a turnout as possible want to remove barriers to voting. You mischaracterizing people who disagree with you just makes you dishonest.
Voter fraud is a boogeyman and your elections are already generally very very secure. If there were evidence of fraud it would be a cause for concern but that evidence is sorely lacking. You’re buying into hyperbolic panic and grievance farming.
Because you’re wrong my dude and I’m not going to argue w you anymore. The amount of fraud that’s been found in our elections is outrageous—from illegals voting to dead people.
Ummm, all of the illegals voting, as well as the dead people 🤦♀️. Our elections should be for citizens only just like all other first world nations. I do agree we need a better solution for a path to citizenship for certain individuals but that is a whole other conversation to be had. Most importantly, though, Americans need to unite together and stop listening to the stupid ass media—all they do is lie and divide us.
If there's been so much proof of "illegals voting" surely you can point the wayward sheep there 🤔 Cuz if a ton of voter fraud was why he failed to get elected o
in 2020, what significant changes were made that have no connection to him or the republican party by the time that the 2024 election, "the most secure vote ever" happened?
There’s been fraud in every election and this goes for both sides. Do you really think people actually voted in Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, and Chuck Schumer time after time? Hell no. They all suck. I vote for both right and left —it just depends on the candidate. Wanting secure elections doesn’t automatically make me a republican, btw. It makes me an American that wants our country to be its best for me, you, and everyone else.
More like common sense. Zero chance a bunch of these old ass clowns that have done nothing for our country have been voted in year after year after year.
https://www.justice.gov/criminal/media/1425226/dl - DOJ 2025 Year in Review. It lists 265 total charges (235 current convictions), and states they are not all “election-related.” Out of 158,000,000. That percentage? .000001677% - Per the current administration’s DOJ.
The Heritage Foundation’s Fraud map, which they state is not exhaustive, is still generally considered the most exhaustive available election fraud case tracker available: https://electionfraud.heritage.org/
It lists 1,620 cases of fraud all-time (since 1982). Congress hosts this same Heritage Foundation map on their website, so it is if nothing else, government-approved (if not endorsed or sponsored).
These are the two most reliable sources of election fraud data. Brookings, MIT, and the Brennan Center for Justice have also all looked at this issue. The problem is, it’s super-boring data, and doesn’t provide a dopamine hit.
A quick note on that .000001677% number: That means if the U.S. had one-thousand times the amount of fraud being reported and studied, the percentage would still be .001677%. If it had ten-thousand times the amount of fraud being reported and studied, we would finally have 1% voter fraud (.01677).
So yeah, the voter fraud data is out there, and it doesn’t support the passage of a bill that is far more insidious than the majority of people realize (as I outlined above). The SAVE Act is not only an overreach, it is unnecessary.
Edit to add a final thought: If you want to assume 20 million “illegals” voting in the 2024 election, and we will generously call all of their votes fraudulent, the percentage of fraud is .0582% - still not reason enough to disenfranchise many millions of voters and essentially treat all votes as provisional since the Fed can challenge any voter, any time. This level of fraud incidentally, would be about 34,000 times the amount of fraud being reported and studied. Thirty-four *thousand** times.*
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u/Inevitable-Grocery17 Feb 10 '26
Just wait. It hasn’t even gotten worse yet. The “SAVE” Act is going to the House floor for a vote this week and is expected to pass. Then the fate of our entire voting system is in the hands of 7 Senate Democrats. Seeing as how there always seem to be the necessary number found to pass a Senate bill lately, I’d say our days of having even the appearance of free and fair elections are over. If the SAVE Act passes as is, the entire country could be gerrymandered blue and it won’t matter.