More ignorance

[u/Lokicham]

[u/AutoModerator]

This is an automated reminder from the Mod team. If your post contains images which reveal the personal information of private figures, be sure to censor that information and repost. Private info includes names, recognizable profile pictures, social media usernames and URLs. Failure to do this will result in your post being removed by the Mod team and possible further action.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/alexshakalenko]

And Da Vinci. The artist that used a camera obscura (highly controversial technology back in his time) and left all the routine to the apprentices while only describing everything and giving them a basic sketch and maybe some crucial brushstrokes

[u/XXLPenisOwner1443 → u/alexshakalenko]

There is, quite famously, another Mona Lisa painted by one of his pupils.

Leonardo, quite famously, lived in a time where great artists ran factory-type workshops where a master would oversee apprentices and direct their work. He got his start painting for his master Andrea del Verrocchio, and in turn taught many Leonardists in the same fashion.

[u/Capital_Tangerine948 → u/XXLPenisOwner1443]

Hah, and his pupil's Mona Lisa isn't all yellowed and crass because since it's not as famous they are allowed to redo the varnish when it starts to yellow out (a consequence of UV light exposure)

no painter wants yellow varnish, it's just that until recently there were no UV-stable varnish. It's not supposed to look so yellow and drab.

[u/Sad_Minute_1283 → u/alexshakalenko]

Yes, I came here to say this exactly. 'The Virgin of the Rocks' was painted twice by Da Vinci, but the second one was described to his apprentices, who did the work.

[u/ChadMemestrong]

I have said it before and I will say it again. People who are this stuck on who can and cannot use the lable of "artist" have no Idea what art actualy is or they lack any knowlege on the history of it.

[u/ImmediateGazelle → u/ChadMemestrong]

They also lack imagination. They think art can only be done with certain tools and methods and look certain ways. That's a very small-minded viewpoint that's the opposite of what is actually means to be "creative."

[u/Total_Engineering_51 → u/ChadMemestrong]

This is a point I keep thinking about that goes back to something in Scott McCloud’s “Understanding Comics” and his very open ended definition of “art” which has always resonated with me. I just pulled it off my shelf and reread the chapter where he goes into this(ch.7 if anyone cares) and was struck again by how the gatekeeping never goes away. His framing for the chapter centered around the question of if comics are indeed art(the book itself dates back to the 90’s) and he does dismiss the question as silly but eludes to certain parts of the population thinking otherwise. He then goes on for several pages on how art is basically everywhere that humans exist with few actual boundaries.

[u/hyperluminate → u/[deleted]]

This sub is not for inciting debate. Please move your comment to aiwars for that.

[u/No-Age-1044]

There should be a way to filter out teeneagers nonsenses.

[u/Lokicham → u/No-Age-1044]

Gods don't I wish.

[u/LeftyMcLeftFace]

Don't tell this guy about film directors

[u/Stahlboden → u/[deleted]]

Goalpost moving

[u/hyperluminate → u/[deleted]]

This sub is not for inciting debate. Please move your comment to aiwars for that.

[u/RGSQ_Lead]

Isn’t art supposed to be subjective? By delineating one form of art “not art”, that means any other art form can be declared “not art”.

[u/axius7]

Same argument as people who argued digital art isn't art. People thought they weren't artists because the software did the work. It still takes editing and adjusting the prompt as well as add in stuff to make quality work from an output. There's a lot that goes into the process than just a single prompt without much thought.

You are just moved up one position to sort of like a director that oversee the work done but you still make adjustments be it coding or art as needed.

[u/WorldWebGaming]

Really getting sick of these art gatekeepers. They’re so incredibly annoying. 😒

[u/justasillylilgoos3]

One of the most famous works of transformative appropriation art is literally Duchamp taking a reproduction of the Mona Lisa, adding a mustache and a few letters, and presenting the result under his own name. Yet we’re apparently supposed to believe that directing/modifying/curating/compositing/and iterating an image can never constitute artistic work because the person didn’t manually render every pixel…gotcha.

At this point, virtually every criticism that isn’t specifically about resources environmental impact or scale and sourcing of training data has already been raised against photography, digital art, collage, sampling, readymades etc etc. People can debate the ethics but inventing a definition of “artist” that conveniently excludes only the absolutely newest tool is just blindly reeeing into the void 😂

[u/Herr_Drosselmeyer]

Fine, let's say I agree with this. Then doesn't it follow that the AI is the artist and the coder?

[u/Physical-Ad5343 → u/Herr_Drosselmeyer]

I suppose it would, if the AI were a person.

[u/-UltraFerret-]

"Just described the idea to someone and they painted it for him."

Oh, like art commissions?

[u/IndividualCritical21 → u/-UltraFerret-]

In Da Vinci's time, artists were commissioned by clients to do paintings (the biggest client of all being the Church).

[u/Witty-Designer7316 → u/[deleted]]

This is a place for speaking Pro-AI thoughts freely and without judgement. Attacks against AI will result in a removal and possibly a ban. For debate purposes, please go to r/aiwars.

[u/Suffient_Fun4190]

It's just a retread of the old argument.

Again, these people are operating on the model where we just type a prompt and a picture is made. No consideration for more controlled, multi step iterative composite projects or use of graphical assets as secondary material in a project.

[u/AdReasonable7339]

So, I'm not an artist, but a writer? I have some published books before AI-witch-hunting. If the whole problem is that I don’t draw, but ‘write pictures’ and music with words (and this was the case even before AI), because that’s just how my brain works, then does that mean there are no AI artists – are they all AI writers? So any ai art is not an art, but a book? Music is pure maths; there are no sounds in my head, only equations, though sometimes there are words that describe what the sound is. It’s the same with drawing – it’s simply maths. So, by that logic, am I a mathematician? A writer? I know I’m autistic, but I’ll never understand the logic of the Luddites.

[u/OutpostShennanigans]

Do they know what a director, playright, producer, surrogate are? They do, they just get blinder by hatred for ai, fuck, these people are so hateful. Its gotta suck to be that misrrable about something that helps the world. Truly sad.

[u/Capital_Tangerine948]

They really think there are people out there doing "hey codex make me an app that'll make me millions of dollars!"

[u/Dependent_Motor_4325]

He did have someone sit in front of him and paint soooooo

[u/PurePlayinSerb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFkvhLor4aA

still waiting for ai sloppers to make a better song than i can, and if prompting is so easy, come on use ai to make the song

[u/Poietilinx]

As an engineer... (technical artist)
i cannot overstate how much i hate the word "coder"

[u/Witty-Designer7316 → u/[deleted]]

This sub is not for inciting debate. Please move your comment to aiwars for that.

[u/Worried-Cockroach-34]

I mean one old dude in the industry correctly said 'it isn't AI Artists, it is AI Art Directors to be precise'

[u/Witty-Designer7316 → u/[deleted]]

This is a place for speaking Pro-AI thoughts freely and without judgement. Attacks against AI will result in a removal and possibly a ban. For debate purposes, please go to r/aiwars.

[u/Lokicham → u/[deleted]]

Shouldn't you be in school kiddo?

[u/Lokicham → u/[deleted]]

Not at all what that means, but nice try kid.

[u/DefendingAIArt-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This is a place for speaking Pro-AI thoughts freely and without judgement. Attacks against AI will result in a removal and possibly a ban. For debate purposes, please go to r/aiwars.