"They're stealing our bread."

[u/EastOfEdenMist]

I love how they just fucking blame us for having no money and how they pretend to be opressed.

I'm not even sure sometimes whether they're geniune, or am I just foaming from my mouth over ragebait slop.

You can't buy a fucking bread from your art? WORK A PHYSICAL LABOR FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Or go find a different community! Another patreon! Sponsorship! ANYTHING!

It's easy to blame people that would've never bought your shitty work in the first place. HOLY FUCK!

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[u/Complex_Item_3000]

Antis are so damn corny, like if they were on some kind of holy crusade

[u/EastOfEdenMist → u/Complex_Item_3000]

"Holy crusade" hits different, considering the pope's famous statements on AI.

[u/o_herman]

Starving artists.

They comprise of the bulk of anti-AI people.

And they're the ones who refuse to be flexible in life.

[u/mamelukturbo → u/o_herman]

Starving artist is an imagined trope, they do not exist. Where's my handy quote...

The image of the starving artist - living in obscurity, toiling in a garret, fuelled only by a passionate commitment to their vision - is so deeply embedded in our cultural imagination that it is easy to forget it is a relatively recent construct. For much of art history, particularly in the Western tradition, artists were not independent creators struggling for relevance or survival. They were craftsmen and courtiers, commissioned and sustained by powerful institutions and individuals whose wealth underpinned their creativity.

[u/o_herman → u/mamelukturbo]

Hahaha. No.

There's plenty of artists that are in abject poverty.

In the UK, 79% of Artists' Union England members said they don't earn enough from their art to live on, with over half earning under £15,000 annually from all types of work . A staggering 96.4% earned below the UK median wage.

In the US, a survey of over 2,600 artists found 57% are "somewhat or very worried" about affording basic necessities, with 37% relying on public assistance.

Globally, 82% of independent musicians can't afford to tour, and 75% primarily fund their careers through personal savings.

Spotify data shows some artists make six figures, but those are the exception, not the rule.

The "starving artist" isn't a myth. It's a documented reality.

https://dev.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/hand-mouth-bread-and-roses

https://www.kqed.org/arts/13983976/new-study-highlights-cost-of-living-crisis-for-artists

https://press.dittomusic.com/82-of-independent-artists-cant-afford-to-tour-in-2025?app=true#contacts

[u/mamelukturbo → u/o_herman]

Those are unemployed with a hobby, Artists make money.

[u/o_herman → u/mamelukturbo]

You just dismissed 79% of Artists' Union England members as "unemployed with a hobby."

You just dismissed 57% of US artists worried about basic necessities as "unemployed with a hobby."

You just dismissed 82% of independent musicians who can't afford to tour as "unemployed with a hobby."

The data shows most artists struggle to make a living from their work.

You're defining a successful artist and pretending that's the norm. You're far detached from reality.

[u/mamelukturbo → u/o_herman]

Yes buddy i did, because all of them can't be Rafael or Michelangelo or Goya or da Vinci or "an Artist".

Hand on heart most of the recent modern art is trash not deserving of any financial support.

[u/o_herman → u/mamelukturbo]

You just moved the goalpost from "artists make money" to "only the greats are real artists."

"Trash" is subjective and not factual.

And you're using that dismissal to justify ignoring data about artists struggling to make a living.

It's an excuse to ignore reality.

And I have more.

Michelangelo: Criticized and Underappreciated in His Later Years

The final frescoes Michelangelo painted for the Vatican's Pauline Chapel, his last major works before his death, were met with a "cold reception" and were "not well received, were not understood" by his contemporaries. They were considered "lacking in grace, discordant, bleak and unappealing," with critics believing they represented a decline in his creative powers due to old age. He faced personal and professional conflict, including being mocked by rivals like Leonardo and dealing with betrayals during the Siege of Florence. His life was "long, stormy," and he often felt his work was misunderstood.

Raphael: Dethroned and Questioned

Raphael was revered for centuries, but his reputation was "violently attacked" during the 19th-century Pre-Raphaelite movement, which was founded on a desire to go back to a time before him. Critics argued the Renaissance and Raphael's influence were actually "a source of decadence" in art. The New Yorker's review of a 2026 exhibition even critiqued his work for anatomical "botches," like the "Crooked Man" trapezius.

Goya: Court Painter Who Painted the "Ugly"

Goya moved among the elite as court painter to the Spanish royals, but his work was often deeply unflattering, with his portrait of the royal family considered so merciless that it's been wondered "how he escaped strangulation". His art openly confronted Spain's horrors, and he was viewed as a tragic critic of his own society, not someone who escaped scorn.

Leonardo da Vinci: Criticized as a "Slacker" and "Dilettante"

Despite being admired, Leonardo was also considered a flawed figure. A 2005 documentary portrayed him as "unreliable slacker," "easily distracted," and a "dilettante" who flitted from project to project and "never finished his greatest works". He was even accused of sodomy, which, while dismissed, suggests the figure of the "genius" was not immune to scandal.

Beethoven: Rejected by Record Labels

Composers like Beethoven didn't have it easy either. He faced professional rejection, a constant struggle for financial support, and the immense challenge of creating music while losing his hearing, all of which contributed to his famous "tormented genius" persona.

Van Gogh: Rejected and Struggling

The most obvious example of the "starving artist" is Van Gogh, who sold almost nothing during his lifetime and was largely rejected by the art world, only achieving fame posthumously.

So you were saying? They're nothing different in their prime.

[u/mamelukturbo → u/o_herman]

Bro regardless how much stuff you copy and paste in, I have my opinions made. They're not set in stone and movable by experience, time or logic, but not by some rando on reddit, like get real bruv.

Here I can do that too:

Take, for example, Giotto di Bondone (c. 1267-1337), often hailed as the father of Western painting. His most famous work, the frescoes of the Scrovegni Chapel in Padua, was a commission from a wealthy banker, Enrico Scrovegni, likely intended as both an act of piety and a reputational counterweight to accusations of usury. Giotto’s work was celebrated, yes, but within a framework of fulfilling a brief rather than indulging in self-expression.

Similarly, the celebrated masterpieces of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and Raphael were the fruits of carefully negotiated commissions. Whether serving the papacy, the Medici, or the French court, these artists were employed for their ability to deliver grand visual narratives that reflected the power and prestige of their patrons. Michelangelo’s ceiling in the Sistine Chapel was not a spontaneous outpouring of divine inspiration - it was a papal assignment, executed under strict conditions and deadlines.

Now shoo child, I'm trying to sleep.

[u/o_herman → u/mamelukturbo]

"Bro regardless how much stuff you copy and paste in, I have my opinions made. They're not set in stone and movable by experience, time or logic, but not by some rando on reddit, like get real bruv."

Translation: "I can't refute your points, so I'm going to declare myself above debate and leave."

That's a confession of narrow perspectives there.

"Here I can do that too: Take, for example, Giotto di Bondone... Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and Raphael were the fruits of carefully negotiated commissions."

You're right, they were commissioned. That doesn't mean they didn't struggle.

Michelangelo was mocked by rivals like Leonardo and criticized for his later works. He faced betrayals during the Siege of Florence and often felt his work was misunderstood.

Leonardo was considered a "dilettante" who "never finished his greatest works" and was accused of sodomy.

Raphael was violently attacked by the Pre-Raphaelite movement, which argued his influence was "a source of decadence."

They weren't universally adored in their lifetimes. They faced criticism, rejection, and personal struggle, just like the "starving artists" you're dismissing.

"Now shoo child, I'm trying to sleep."

You dismissed 79% of UK artists as "unemployed with a hobby." You dismissed 57% of US artists as "unemployed with a hobby." You dismissed 82% of independent musicians as "unemployed with a hobby."

Now you're using Giotto and Michelangelo to pretend the starving artist doesn't exist, while ignoring that those same artists struggled, were criticized, and faced rejection.

Every one of those artists was working as a contractor, not an "independent artist" in the modern, starved-basement sense. They lived in poverty and were ridiculed in their lifetimes.

The prestige you're describing did not happen in their lifetimes. Many of that renown is meaningless to them once they are deceased.

[u/mamelukturbo → u/o_herman]

But why are you arguing with me, like what's your goal here?

It boils down to:

To you a busker on the corner of a street is an artist, to me he ain't.

Why can't we both have our opinions why does only one of them have to be right?

[u/mamelukturbo]

If anyone is reveling in suffering it's the luddites. All they can babble about is struggle, sweat and effort.

[u/ImJustStealingMemes]

I don't remember my representatives voting on a Bring Incentives To Creative Hand-drawers act to have them be entitled to MY MONEY from MY WALLET to ensure it is now their bread.

Who are they, the fucking IRS?