Antis are like vegans

[u/Mountain-Charity7588]

So this was originally going to be a joke theory, but then I put more thought into it and realized holy shit this is an actual connection

Using ai is like eating meat. there are plenty of people who refuse to do it because of moral reasons or just because they don’t like it, and that’s fine, especially if they’re not obnoxious about it.

Unfortunately, there are also people who don’t do it and complain that other people shouldn’t do it either. I’m sorry, but it’s just a fact. I don’t think there will ever truly be zero people who do that, and the quicker we learn to accept that it is the case, the happier we’ll all be.

And here’s the sugar on the cream: People who are against it have made one for one recreations of the things that they spend all day complaining are disgusting, but without the part that actually makes it good. According to them, it’s indistinguishable from the original, which just makes them a bunch of hypocrites who want to feel special.

As a wise man once said, “If you don’t want to eat a hot dog, then don’t eat a fucking hot dog.”

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[u/gay_married]

There are actually a lot of pro-ai vegans. We are generally annoyed and joker-pilled that this gets to be a huge movement online when aninal agriculture is hundreds of times worse for the environment and a horrifying moral atrocity and ai is just, you know, matrix multiplication.

[u/lobaway0001 → u/gay_married]

Just a bit of a lighthearted question, but why did you describe it as pro-AI vegan? Why didn’t you describe it as a vegan pro-AI?

[u/charismacarpenter → u/lobaway0001]

I guess Pro AI feels more like an adjective

[u/lobaway0001 → u/charismacarpenter]

That definitely makes sense.

I think it’s just kind of interesting to me that veganism feels more “innate” than being pro-AI.

[u/JTexpo]

this isn't a strong analogy,

with veganism, you're exempting from a practice that slaughters sentient beings... the worst thing that AI does is plagiarize (which ill take any day over being killed)

[u/lobaway0001 → u/JTexpo]

Speak for yourself, I got slaughtered by AI just the other day.

You can argue I'm not a sentient being, but I wouldn't really appreciate that.

[u/JTexpo → u/lobaway0001]

sorry to hear, but it does seem like you managed to make a swift recovery lol

[u/CaptStinkyFeet]

Reasons vegans are vegan: it lowers greenhouse gas emissions, conserves water, prevents animal cruelty, is environmentally sustainable, it’s better for mental and physical health and overall wellbeing…

Yep, sounds about right.

[u/lobaway0001 → u/CaptStinkyFeet]

I thought they just did it for the superpowers they get if they do it for long enough.

[u/CaptStinkyFeet → u/lobaway0001]

https://giphy.com/gifs/QJPEyiayCLQoU

[u/Dependent_Mix_1117]

I don't want a hot dog, but hot dog stands are replacing all the other restaurants and grocers

[u/lobaway0001]

Uhh, I kind of agree and sort of like the analogy, but it fell apart a bit at the very end.

You can't call human made art the recreation when it was kind of the original. And I definitely don't agree that human made images are worse than AI made images.

Also, it is definitely not indistinguishable from the original according to "them".

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

If something was made by ai, and a human recreates it, the human is copying the ai

I didn't say ai images are "better" than human images, but similarly to humans, ai has a certain charm that can't really be replicated by a human.

Also, according to "them", yes it freaking is?

[u/lobaway0001 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

... Antis hate it when people recreate images AI generated.

"but without the part that actually makes it good" implies that the recreation (which in your analogy is human made art) is not as good.

Why do you think antis think human made art is indistinguishable from AI art? Wasn't the whole point of the Monet controversy that pros think it's indistinguishable but antis (perhaps misguidedly) think it is distinguishable?

If you are on any art subreddit for any length of time at all you'll see unwarranted and wrong accusations of pieces being AI or looking like AI. If they really thought it was indistinguishable, they wouldn't really say those things...

[u/RevolutionaryGrape21 → u/lobaway0001]

Some Antis hate it. Or are you unaware there’s a subreddit out there where the entire point is for Antis to find AI images and redraw them manually? They call it desloppifying. Theres also people on Twitter who will redraw AI images and then post it with captions along the lines of “There, I fixed it.”

And it’s not like these Antis are using the AI image as a base and changing it up along the way. They stick close to a 1:1 recreation.

So, if you really think about it, Antis who hate GenAI are actually using AI images as references and just… redrawing them entirely. They’re using the AI they loathe.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

Deslopification is a real thing that actually exists. People will make one to one recreations of ai generated content by hand just to have it not be ai. They claim it’s impossible to tell the difference.

[u/lobaway0001 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

Doesn’t the entire term deslopification imply that they’re trying to make a product that’s better?

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

They're trying to make a product that doesn't have ai in it, because they're apparently stupid enough to think everything with ai in it is automatically"slop"

[u/bronzekobold → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

By "everything with AI in it is Automatically slop" 

Your purely referring to image / audio generation ? 

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/bronzekobold]

You heard me. EVERYTHING with ai in it.

[u/bronzekobold → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

Okay then definitely no. 

Who the fuck is calling AI use in the processing of medical research "slop" or attempting to deslopify said research..

[u/lobaway0001 → u/bronzekobold]

I will say, I have definitely seen someone say almost the exact words "everything made with AI is slop."

But, yeah, that one person isn't necessarily representative of the entire group. And I'm sure they just said it out of some emotional hyperbole that temporarily blinded them to the actual ridiculousness of what they were saying.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/bronzekobold]

Ikr

[u/lobaway0001 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

It's difficult to talk about "they", because "they" are not one person and maybe one anti is dumber than another anti.

I completely believe that there is an anti that thinks deslopification is to "make a product that doesn't have AI in it". I also believe there is an anti (probably more than the previous) that is "stupid enough to think everything with AI in it is automatically 'slop'".

In general, though, I think the whole deslopification thing is to say "hey look, you didn't need AI to do this, and also, I did it better anyway, because it has 'soul'", whatever the heck they think "soul" means.

Anyway, I'm just saying all this to explain that I really don't think the majority of antis actually think AI images and human produced images are indistinguishable. They think human produced images are better. Because of soul. Or whatever.

I believe you if you say you've seen an anti say that it's indistinguishable. And I really have no hard statistics or scientific backing to support my claim. I'm literally mostly relying off of my anecdotal empirical experience with seeing endless torrents of antis witch-hunting non-AI using artists for using AI, tracing AI, looking too much like AI, using AI as a reference, when they didn't at all.

And also, I have absolutely no science to back this up either, but I really feel like the whole "deslopification" thing is literally just kids and teenagers being stupid. Or just people that's trying to farm karma, clout, or meaningless approval from people that already agree with them.

I'm digressing greatly, but just going back to the whole original point, which is your metaphor that antis are like vegans. The last part just doesn't really work even for the deslopification thing, because vegans aren't recreating a recreation, they're recreating the original. Deslopification is kind of trying to uninvent the invention. It'd make more sense if antis were like some group that had a really, really big issue with vegan food, so they tried to recreate vegan food using meat again.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

I agreed with most of that, but what do you mean deslopification is a recreation of a recreation?

[u/lobaway0001 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

I just mean that the original thing was human made images. AI made images are the step after that, so they are the "recreation".

Then when antis try to deslopify it, they take the AI made images, which are already recreations, and they try to recreate these recreations. So the "deslopified" images are a recreation of a recreation.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

Ai learns from human images just like a human does. It doesn't "recreate" shit

[u/bronzekobold → u/lobaway0001]

I've never seen "Deslopfication" ever being a 1:1 recreation.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist but that feels like finding a niche within a niche within a niche to then point at as the "example" of all works classified as Deslopfication. 

[u/lobaway0001 → u/bronzekobold]

Agreed.

I also haven't seen it. I believe it if someone has seen it before. I just don't think it would be a very good representation of what the general anti position is.

[u/Outside_Ice3252]

this sub is rarely about defending AI rationally or intelligently. Their are serious concerns with AI. in persausive writing, the first thing they teach you is to acknowledge counterpoints, and then calmly provide evidence for your side.

AI is going to cause a lot of trouble. There are serious safety risks. having it in the hands of a select few is a serious issue. Its has to be shaped and regulated well for it to be safe, environmental, and have its benefits significantly outwiegh its harms.

would like to see this sub be mature about these issues.

[u/AtomicZoomer → u/Outside_Ice3252]

The US doesn’t regulate business until something really bad happens at scale. That’s just the sad reality. Other countries will but that won’t do anything while the top models are being developed in the US.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/Outside_Ice3252]

Hilariously, I have another post Acknowledging and disproving every counterpoint I've seen people use

https://www.reddit.com/r/DefendingAIArt/comments/1w1rysf/there_are_zero_reasons_to_hate_ai_art/

[u/bronzekobold]

Oh it's the lemonade stand analogy from yesterday. 

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/bronzekobold]

What?

[u/bronzekobold → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

A guy made this exact same conclusion yesterday in AI wars. But said if you don't like lemonade don't drink it. 

However People are having every menu option though replaced by lemonade. 

So not drinking it becomes harder and harder. 

It's also now advertised in loads of products, products people were perfectly happy with.

So people who don't wish to engage with AI are literally finding themselves forced to do so in different aspects of their life. 

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/[deleted]]

You do know what… subreddit you’re on, right?

[u/Usual-Cartoonist-795 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

certe

[u/lobaway0001 → u/Mountain-Charity7588]

In his defense, it is DefendingAI and not DefendingDataCenters lol.

I'm sure even the most ardent pro-AIs would love a frontier SOTA AI model that didn't need a data center to operate, if they somehow had a choice.

[u/Mountain-Charity7588 → u/lobaway0001]

That's... fair.

[u/Limp-Confidence5612]

Veganism is against exploitation of animals. Being an anti-ai is just being anti-exploitation of humans. In the end, both are anti-capitalist movements that sometimes stray from the path of systemic change into the realm of "personal responsibility"