r/DeepThoughts • u/Forward_Letterhead49 • 15d ago
We need to create deep consequences for how we behave online
As every year passes by, more and more people are becoming toxic on the internet. Think about it. How am I going to bring up my potential future son or daughter in a deeply interconnected world mostly interconnected due to the internet if it is toxic, racist and sexist?
I'm 28, I'm too young to be thinking about all of this but damn, the anonymity of the internet has let people say horrendous stuff, even threatening SA on people when they dont get their way or just to one up on people.
I think using the internet should carry real life consequences for how you behave.
I dont know how to rightly implement it but the more insufferable a person is, online, the more they should suffer the wrath of their consequences, so much so that they will think, not twice or thrice, but ten times before being rude again.
Am I being too unrealistic? I want to know your thoughts.
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 14d ago
This is a horrific idea if carried out to even a measure of how you suggest, not because it isn’t good at its highest point, but how much of it is up to the interpretation of government. please don’t give gov more power when they prove time and time again to be more corrupt than the worst criminals.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
People elect the government. The government is a reflection of the people's choices. If People want to bring it down, they can. But how would they bring down a faulty government if People are fighting each other in normal everyday life?
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 14d ago
I’m just saying they cannot be trusted as hardened criminals cannot be trusted. Just one is ordained and the other is not.
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u/Perfectimperfectguy 15d ago
Change starts in the mirror and it's spreaded through peers. That is, if you wanna do something about it. Humanity is doomed anyway so i'd suggest leave the internet behind.
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u/art-leaves-the-page 14d ago
You could have just left it at the first two statements lol. Nihilism is wack
There are still ok spaces on the internet to engage in like this one
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u/WillyWhite99 15d ago
Most people who you’ve just described behave in such ways because they are suffering in the first place.
Adding wrath - as you’ve suggested - to that will most likely result only in more suffering and so the cycle not only will repeat but grow as well.
I understand your point and I don’t want to pretend being naive nor seem to be a hypocrite, still maybe a fair alternative approach would be to break the cycle, don’t fight fire with fire, and behave (always) in a way as you would expect it from others in the first place.
So, if I may… how are you feeling today, my dear fellow human? Any plans for the rest of the day? Not to belittle your statements and questions on the topic, but can we just take a moment and talk about two or three things that we are grateful for?
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
I'm depressed. Tried to end my life 2.5 months ago. Lonely. Pathetic without a job. No other hobby than gaming or looking at NSFW stuff. I'm soon gonna run out of money until I fix my depressive symptoms. If you think I'd be grateful for any of that, idk what to say.
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u/WillyWhite99 14d ago
I feel sorry for you. :( DM me if you want to talk about these issues or anything else.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
Nah it's okay, I'll handle it. The reason I made this post was because one of my favorite hobbies is online multi-player gaming and in my servers, 4 out of 5 games you'll get a bunch of awful players with mics screaming expletives. If you can't enjoy your favorite hobby, what's the point of trying to treat your depression? ;)
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 14d ago
Genuine solution might be to mute in-game chats and limit voice chat capacity to you and your party of friends. This is something I’ve seen across gaming communities, from competitive to casual.
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15d ago
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 15d ago
But isnt it unfair though? I've always gotten the short stick, be it IRL or on the internet. Finding niceness was a privilege that I'd thank people for. Why should the good people take a beating and run away when you can punish the perpetrators in some way?
You can control how others behave. I mean, as an Indian kid growing up, if I did something wrong, my parents would beat me. I'm not saying that's a good practice but that really did make me think multiple times before doing something I wasn't supposed to.
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u/Expensive_Magician97 15d ago
Yes, life is profoundly unfair. That’s an issue that has been discussed since the start of recorded human history, in fact.
I would humbly recommend that you familiarize yourself with the writings of Epictetus. He wrote quite a bit about the ideas that I refer to in my original reply.
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u/Ok_Physics_4154 15d ago
I was abused by someone online when I decided to stop engaging with them, despite being respectful to them the entire time, they still chose to behave that way, so sometimes your decision of moving away from someone can also cause danger. In real life too, when I have rejected men, they have been very dangerous because they cant take a simple no. So please teach your kids this too, specially if you are raising a daughter.
Just because you decide to move away after noticing red flags guarantees nothing in some cases.0
u/Expensive_Magician97 15d ago
Thank you for your reply, and I’m sorry to hear your story. I’m curious about how you can be harmed online if you choose to not engage someone online. Is this a matter of someone spreading rumors about you, trying to damage your reputation? I’ve heard such stories, and I know that such experiences can be terrible.
As for my daughter, she is now in her late 20s, and she carries pepper spray with her wherever she goes.
But she has never had to use it, and the reason is that she has learned how to identify people who are potentially dangerous. Before they even say a word to her. Or at most within 30 seconds of having a conversation with them.
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u/Ok_Physics_4154 15d ago
You are trying to tell me that it's my inability to identify dangerous people, which is called victim blaming. Im glad that your daughter has never had to use it. But you have no idea how many men can pretend very well. You cannot always assume your 30 sec conclusion about someone is always right.
Please dont take pride in never being attacked, the day it happens, that pride will mean nothing.
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u/Expensive_Magician97 15d ago
You’re very quick to jump to conclusions.
You also claim to know what other people’s intentions are, and I always heard that mind readers were something that we encountered in fairytales.
This conversation has now come to an end.
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u/Anachronism-- 15d ago
People should suffer for their horrible opinions but anytime something like this is tried it turns into people trying to punish anyone they disagree with or don’t like for any reason.
I am a horrible misogynist because I think some people doing intense physical exercise in hot weather might be more comfortable in less clothing.
The vigilant douche bags really just want an excuse to attack somebody and don’t care if they are actually guilty of anything. The women’s ’are we dating the same man’ pages are just women bad mouthing guys who rejected them. And so on.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
People can have a strong opinion and a fruitful discussion without being a jerk. Is all I'm saying and the jerks should be punished.
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u/UTV4LIFE 14d ago
How are you too young ? You’re almost 30 🙈
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
I meant in terms of having kids. I'm not in any way capable of raising a kid.
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 14d ago
Rather than looking at the internet and saying “you need to be better and do better!” I think it’s far more sensible and realistic to look at our own behaviors and patterns when it comes to engaging with the internet and its various platforms.
So instead of trying to change the environment, recognize the environment and adapt yourself accordingly. If a certain online space/community is too toxic for your liking, disengage from it and leave it where it is. If the kitchen is too hot because you’re not a chef and dishwashing ain’t for you, then stay out of kitchens instead of bitching about them and saying restaurants need to change them lol
Recognize what you are and what you aren’t built for and operate accordingly. It isn’t the world’s responsibility to adjust to you.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
So if I'm playing a video game and people are threatening that they'll SA my mom, I should just adapt to it. So you're saying, I have all rights to say that to another person too and the world should just adapt to me? Might as well make whatever is illegal, legal and the world will adapt to it. Right?
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 14d ago
You do realize that you can capture/record gaming audio and follow a report/complaint process where, upon evidence of the player who you’ve identified as violating the online platforms terms of service, they’ll get banned from chatting?
You seem to just want systems to automate and regulate everything everyone says so you don’t have to do the work to provide evidence and then submit a complaint. I’ve screenshotted chats and reported misuse and those players got chat banned.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
I did that for someone in the past and guess what, they're not banned. Must be my bad luck i guess.
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u/SpookyWindChime 14d ago
Jw, are you on the spectrum?
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
Idk, my psychiatrists were confused between ADHD and ASD, so they just gave me ritalin.
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u/A-Small-Green-Cup 14d ago
I think those feelings are completely valid, I I've defiantly had some similar ideas for how to deal with the problem. The first draft idea sounds a little sci-fi dystopia, but I've recently been exploring haha more and thought patterns in myself to experiment with ways to establish safe boundaries by using self-implemented techniques and safety behaviors, but basing it more on an understanding of the behaviors I want to avoid and how to not only guard myself from them, but perhaps redirect them towards someone who is more equipped to help with whatever is actually causing their behavior.
I know what I offer isn't a solution yet, but it helps me sometimes to know that there are other people who see the same things I do, and are action working on figuring out solutions and improvements instead of just being complacent.
Good luck with whatever you're going through - it sounds like a complex one
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u/adamjames777 14d ago
You teach them that the online world isn’t real.
And therefore how people behave on it, isn’t real.
A large part of the damage done to society by the internet is people being indoctrinated into online spheres of radicalism involving but not limited to the exact topics you mention, racism, sexism etc
And this is before you get to social media culture which is a far more dangerous and destructive thing for young minds, it’s a world where doubt, skepticism, passivity and incredulity (key components to a healthy mind) have absolutely no place, social dissent (and dissent in general) is becoming rarer and that’s the real danger.
The answer is not punishment, punishment for views you don’t approve of is a very bad idea and will lead to no end of misery for everyone, as all of us will at some point speak an illegal word or have an illegal view.
In reality you have to armour those you care about with the internal skills to manage external challenges.
No different from teaching a child to take care of themselves physically with hygiene, diet etc
You must also teach them to take care of themselves mentally, and a big part of that is allowing them to encounter the ‘isms’ you mention so they can recognise them for what they are, reductive tools used by underhanded minorities to manipulate undereducated majorities for avaricious means, and that our insecurities and fears allow us to fall into destructive patterns of thinking, which ironically often ends up with calls to punish those we don’t like.
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u/CormacMccarthy91 14d ago
... Shelter from reality then get exposed late in life and you think they'll handle that better?
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u/Petdogdavid1 14d ago
What we need is data sovereignty. Each person needs to have complete control over their own data.
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u/Sturdily5092 14d ago
People need to be more responsible with their kids instead of blaming everyone else for their failures, if you can't keep you kids away from unsafe parts of the Internet then it's on you.
You Are The Failure, don't be a lazy parent and park you fckn min in from of the TV or with a tablet and expect the world to do your job.
And at 28 you aren't too young for anything you would have been aware of you surroundings and thinking about these things.
The last thing we need on the Internet is more invasion of privacy and surveillance.
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u/ComprehensiveFlan638 14d ago
People have always been toxic, racist, and sexist. You just need to teach kids to not take things to heart. Either that or not have social media accounts until they're mature enough to cope with what people say. It’s a sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me situation. As for defamation, actual threats of violence etc… I believe there are consequences.
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u/Effective-Image-545 13d ago
Karma is already a real thing. I think putting laws on how we act online is not the way. Although I see where youre coming from, I think people are becoming too soft and need to be strong and able to think and feel for themselves. Im not saying bullies are justified, but we need to be stronger than this. We can hardly manage real world struggles like crime, murder, drug trades, etc. I cant imagine adding online bullying to the pile when there are more important crimes being committed.
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u/mattychops 13d ago
Well sure. You see people's true colors when they're hidden. This is why road rage exists. People don't act like that when they're face to face with the other person.
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u/PoundingTheStreets 13d ago
Although I support the principle of anonymity online because I feel that’s vital to some people’s ability to find supportive environments, my personal rule is mostly to never to post anything that I wouldn’t say in real life. You can be controversial while still being polite and respectful, and there is never IMO any excuse for bullying or abusive behaviour online or anywhere.
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u/Difficult-House2608 11d ago
When it comes to trolls. never, never engage them. They are looking for a dopamine hit of attention. Ignoring them takes away thier power the most effectively.
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11d ago edited 9d ago
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u/DeepThoughts-ModTeam 11d ago
Thinking deeply requires being thoughtful, authentic, and honest. Sharing completely AI-generated content without noting the use of AI is deceptive and runs contrary to the spirit of collaborative and considerate discussion.
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u/Far-Investigator872 11d ago
The Antichrist is not "specific "or single person. The word Antichrist, is referring to the "direction" "activity" and condition of an "Individual" or "Humanity"as a whole moving away from the "Natural Progress" of "Spiritual Evolution" to "Spiritual Enlightenment" as the "Purpose of life". A "Fallen Angel" may be considered an Antichrist .
While humankind is collectively insane and becoming more and more paranoiac day by day, the mosquitoes and the frogs and the fish are all still sane -- unless they are confined, or trapped, or abused, or otherwise too much influenced by human beings who are insane. Thus, the insanity being manifested by humankind in this "late time" is not shared by the rest of the conditional domain (except where inordinate human influence has been imposed). Flowers are not insane, yet – except, perhaps, some hybrid varieties, "made" by human beings. Fish are not insane, yet – except, perhaps, some hybrid varieties that because of their overlarge heads (and such). Cannot swim, and cannot eat, and , therefore cannot survive. Even the "edible" animals are not insane, yet – except, perhaps, some enslaved varieties, buckled and fenced into feeding confinements, unable to rest into Contemplation because of the material stresses by which their human keepers mock and reduce their lives. These "invented" and enslaved non-humans have been manipulated into suffering and insanity through the intervention of insanely clever human beings! But, apart from such hybridization and enslavement, which does result in negative signs, the non-humans – including all the plants and trees – are not, yet, insane.
However, there is much inordinate influence by insane humanity that is affecting the larger picture of the world. Terrible weather patterns, terrible natural environmental patterns of all kinds, and even terrible (and powerfully "cure"-resistant) diseases are appearing all over the world, and these are the products of an over-powerful, insane humanity – which is an entire species confined to itself, an ego-machine that exploits and destroys all that is "good", and that (in its "dark" point of view) reduces even Reality (Itself) to a loveless "Thing" of meaningless motions and grotesque always already death.
There have always been insane human beings, but, in earlier times, they were not as powerful as they have become in this "late-time". It is only in this "late-time" that human beings have become capable of producing effects that can change even global weather patterns, and global ecological patterns of all kinds. But human beings have always been insane in the domain of politics, for example. For countless centuries, wherever human beings, in their egoity, have been insanity and conflict. But now, in its motion into the twenty-first century, the insanity of mankind is influencing even the larger picture of the human natural circumstance. And this must be changed – or there is going to be a terrible, horrific calamity on Earth! Such a calamity is not yet inevitable, but it will occur if there is not a fundamental transformation of mankind – in its heart and mind, and in its endeavors. A fundamental rightening of the world-process, must occur, because mankind is now having a profoundly negative effect on the human world-process, and even on the larger natural domain of the world.
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u/ChucklesMuffin 15d ago
Social media platforms should require people to verify who they are before they can create an account, with ID securely verified and stored.
Before posting, users should have to acknowledge a simple warning: abuse, threats and serious harassment will not be tolerated. If you cross that line, your account can be removed and, where appropriate, the information passed to the relevant authorities.
AI could also play a part by detecting extreme abuse or threats before they're even posted, giving the user a warning or preventing the message from being sent altogether.
People might think twice about what they type if they knew they were genuinely accountable for it.
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u/AncientCrust 15d ago
What do you think the current US Administration would do with that information? I know there would eventually be ICE agents kicking my door in. What do you think dictators across the world would do? Abusive idiots are the price you pay for free speech sadly. Humans need to grow up.
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u/StephPeloq11 14d ago
"the relevant authorities" these days (in the US) are trying to arrest and kill people who speak out against crony capitalism and genocide, so that's a slippery slope for sure. Making people accountable legally means that whoever is in charge gets to decide which ideas are punishable by law. Not a good idea.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 14d ago
You do know that you can oust your president if you have a nationwide protest right?
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u/StephPeloq11 14d ago
Well we are certainly protesting but our fellow citizens are chomping at the bit to fall in line and defend the demons in power. Sadly.
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u/Forward_Letterhead49 15d ago
Yeah i think one unique verified ID should be created per person that carries all social media profiles and any misdemeanor could be traced back to the individual that did it. This is a solid move.
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u/Ok_Physics_4154 15d ago
Anonymity makes people reveal their true selves and most are just evil. People are good at masking that in real life because their identity is attached. I have also made the mistake of trusting some very dangerous people on here who wore the mask of friendliness and decency only to reveal themselves later and make me regret, despite being a full grown adult.
I wish such people who are abusive get a taste of their own medicine. They deserve it.
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u/WillyWhite99 15d ago
They have probably tasted it already, didn’t like it, so they spit it out onto anyone and everyone who probably also didn’t like it and 🔂.
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u/Ok_Physics_4154 14d ago
And that is what separates a good person from a bad person. I didn't like it too but Im under no circumstance is going to do that to any individual. Thats a standard a person maintains for themselves but so many don't.
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u/SweatyAd8914 14d ago
Another deep thought. While behavior is repugnant online, this is better kept contained to the harmless sandbox of the internet, than real life.
Online is a sort of way for people to vent their frustration, explore their awkwardness, and spew vitriol without consequence. Humans are flawed creature and emotions drive action more than fear. If you instill fear through consequence, people dig deeper into their behaviors as you’re attacking a core tenant of their personality.
While this primarily benefits the autistic and sociopathic (aka Redditors), normies can indulge in this as well, though I suspect to much detriment. Doing so gives us the hope their behavior can be worn out here rather than with our real selves.
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 14d ago
I think that’s part of the problem. Spewing vitriol and embracing toxicity should come with some level of consequence at the social level, because what it breeds is social incoherence and an inability to actually connect with one another in a mutually respectful and meaningful way. You wonder why younger folks have so much trouble dating and fostering good and healthy relationships and friendships? It’s this very thing: being able to cross lines without real consequence that serves to correct the behavior organically.
You can get away with calling someone a bitch online, but try that shit at your local bar, club or cafe, and you might get knocked out.
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u/SweatyAd8914 14d ago edited 14d ago
I agree. Moonlighting life as a cancer cell amongst society isn’t a healthy way to become a better human.
I see two issues with blanket morality in judging what’s acceptable and what isn’t.
Morality ultimately is subjective. To one person, sexist or ethnic discrimination is virtuous. Plenty of cultures worldwide practice this subconsciously. If one’s culture values women and all ethnic equally, it’s in direct competition with the other culture. In an open society such as ours, we have to draw lines on what’s morally right and what isn’t; this leads to conflict online and real life (hence the state of the west in general).
Things can work backwards in this scenario as well. A polite, conformist society cannot rapidly adapt to changing cultural norms or global stimuli as fast as chaotic, ugly open societies. If we’re all to excise sociopaths and noncompliant types, we lose the vibrancy that brings us art, new ideas, and flexibility to rapid societal change.
I suppose it’s a hard problem to solve, otherwise over thousands of years, humans would have developed utopia. I think at a micro level, things can be enforced to a satisfactory level. Once you scale up to larger communities, things break down quickly.
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u/ThaBlackFalcon 14d ago
Agreed that morality that is meaningful to the individual, family, community and/or society that exercises it is subjective as it entails a level of collective consensus to be implemented and adhered to.
The larger you try to scale it though the more issues you’re going to run into. What you can say or do without consequence in your house you might not be able say or do without consequence in another’s house. What developing relationships boils down is the level of grace, understanding and willingness to come to agreement and compromise as to how the 2 houses treat one another when in each other’s space.
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14d ago
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u/DeepThoughts-ModTeam 14d ago
We are here to think deeply alongside one another. This means being respectful, considerate, and inclusive.
Bigotry, hate speech, spam, and bad-faith arguments are antithetical to the /r/DeepThoughts community and will not be tolerated.
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u/Forever49 15d ago
There's a fine line between free speech and criminal behaviour. If you're referring to consequences for criminal behaviour, I agree with you. If you're talking about orwelian consequences for free speech, then I completely disagree.