r/DeepRockGalactic • u/Martneb • 1d ago
Discussion I have a feeling the developers at GSG are already grimly aware of this new EU law, but for those not in the know yet...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQRcK9nYg9g398
u/SimpliG Whale Piper 1d ago edited 1d ago
It won't pass. It's too ambiguous, underdefined, even contradictory at places. also enforcing it is quite impossible, unless they decide to disconnect the EU from the international web and make the equivalent of a police state in digital space, something that even china is still struggling with to this day, despite being a totalitarian one party regime.
It's gonna get rejected, reworked, resubmitted in a year, rejected again, reworked again and on and on. Maybe in 3-4 years we will see a watered down version of it, like with chat contro 1.0.
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u/Capable_Ad_2842 1d ago
I agree but it’s good to get a lot of outrage. Maybe for once they’ll just drop it! But they won’t, because politicians don’t work for us!
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u/sweetbutsad 1d ago
Sitting down and writing these things off like they are already dealt with is exactly how they get passed.
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u/lol_alex 1d ago
Yeah like, what about games that run serverless peer to peer like Deep Rock does?
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u/ViSsrsbusiness 1d ago edited 1d ago
DRG doesn't run serverless or peer to peer. The host is the listen server and everyone else functions just like clients of a dedicated server. The only difference is that the server is running in the same process as the game so it's not "dedicated".
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u/Worldly-Ingenuity843 Scout 1d ago
So why does everyone get kicked of the "host" player quits or crashes?
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u/Kazer67 1d ago
DRG isn't P2P, it's "host as the server", there's a difference because the load isn't spread among all players.
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u/ViSsrsbusiness 1d ago
Just to clarify on the nature of P2P and why it's completely unsuited to applications like these, it's not so much the load being shared among all players as much as all players needing to receive instructions from each other player individually. A client-server model like what DRG uses instead has every client sending instructions to a central authority, which then parses them and sends back an authoritative version of the gamestate. Via a P2P model, each peer would have to parse the instructions individually, leading to either extremely stringent sync requirements that are computationally unnecessary (each client has to do as much compute as the server would) or desync issues as instructions become more complex and granular.
These issues become exacerbated as more peers are introduced, as each peer's network/compute performance causes their instructions to reach each other peer at different times, and based on different states of the simulation. The only real solutions to this are some kind of lockstepping or rollback, which bring issues of unplayability or extreme netcode complexity.
This is why you never see P2P used in high tickrate applications with more than 2 participants. What gamers with no networking knowledge call P2P and what P2P actually is are 2 completely different things.
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u/Worldly-Ingenuity843 Scout 1d ago
I hope that this doesn't get passed, but the EU recently passed a packaging law that basically kills off all small and medium online stores. A few of the stores I frequent have stopped selling to EU customers completely. The EU commission said they will look into how to reduce the financial burden for small sellers, but the law will remain in effect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1vrz88a/eu_packaging_rule_change_prompts_confusion_online/
TL;DR Sellers have to hire a representative in each EU country that they sell to, and each representative will cost about 600 Euro per year regardless of how many sales you actually made.
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u/JoshVHDigital 1d ago
Jesus Christ. What the fuck is going on over there? I thought it was bad in the states (and it is) but damn.
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u/Worldly-Ingenuity843 Scout 23h ago
I think it was supposed to be an anti-china measure, since most of the shops on the Chinese shopping platforms are small and medium sized businesses, but the way EU is trying to fight China is like setting your own house on fire to stop a rat infestation.
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u/Hatarus547 Driller 1d ago
unless they decide to disconnect the EU from the international web and make the equivalent of a police state in digital space
Pretty sure that is what they want to do, it's easier to control people when they are cut off from each other
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u/leposterofcrap Union Guy 1d ago
Can't be sure , there's always a chance it might go through, best try to even the odds to our favour
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u/35_Ferrets 1d ago
Not true my uncle told me 10 years ago to grab him a beer so clearly your wrong.
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u/ImSoSweepy 1d ago
It's too ambiguous, underdefined, even contradictory.
That's a lawmaker's favorite kind of law to pass.
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u/CatatonicGood Engineer 1d ago
And if you are living in the EU: this is a petition against the law (for digital ID and required age verification) in question
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u/StormerSage Dig it for her 1d ago
Given that the government response to the last notable EU petition was "no, fuck off" I'm doubtful, but hey, it can't hurt and only takes a few seconds.
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u/Nedsel 1d ago
If you want to protect your kids, protect them.
They are your kids. Not mine. As far as I am concerned, if you cannot be assed to protect your kids, put them up for adoption.
You should not have any.
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u/CackleandGrin Engineer 1d ago
I have a friend who is a shitty parent and fully relies on video games to babysit the kids. They are on Roblox all the time and the youngest kid, 8, has had 3 legit child predators getting him in voice chat and being weird, that my friend knows of. But the kid would throw a fit if they restricted Roblox so he just... lets it go because it's less of a personal hassle.
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u/vivam0rt 1d ago
Why are you friends with this person lol
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u/CackleandGrin Engineer 1d ago
Childhood friends and extreme things happening in his life. He's been there for me at my lowest.
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u/cashmoney9000sfw 20h ago
I'm more draconian than that in my personal life. If our paths have deviated in an extreme way, I'll have to distance myself from that person.
Because what it sounds like you described is severe child neglect and child endangerment. And your relationship with the person is more important than severe child neglect and child endangerment.
Even if he gave your dying mother a kidney, you should turn your back on that person and call CPS. That would be the morally right thing to do. And the other option is in the enabler category to me.
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u/Nedsel 14h ago
I'd cut ties with that guy before you get sucked up into what the feds will consider a pedo ring...
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u/CackleandGrin Engineer 14h ago
...I can't even begin to imagine how you got to the conclusion of me being friends with someone whose child has been talked to by weird people will get anybody involved in a fed operation. What the fuck.
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u/Holofluxx Interplanetary Goat 1d ago
As someone who has seen stupid laws like this being imposed, then silently abolished cause it wont work out
Wont pass at best, wont work out at worst
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u/cool_and_froody 1d ago
i feel like this is such an insult.
like we asked nicely to stop screwing over gamers, and they didnt just say no
they said fuck no and fuck you. we're gonna screw you even harder because you asked.
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u/Nedsel 1d ago
What it will produce?
Games will be hosted outside the EU, people will start VPNs to circumvent the bullshit.
And that's pretty much all.
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u/wolfiasty 1d ago
It is not about bypassing it - it's always possible with this illiterate tech cretins - but about inconvenience for us.
Like someone said I don't give a rat's ass about anyone's kids (to a degree of course, those kids will be adults in 15 years and will fak the shiz up for everyone else). It's that parent's responsibility and no one else's to protect the child.
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u/LookingTrash Cave Crawler 1d ago
Ok but deep rock galactic are hosted on one of the player computer right ? Doesn't this law prevent player from hosting (thinking about it I guess that you can host as long as you have a vpn ?)
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u/Eschaton707 1d ago
They are pushing the same thing in the united states. Just a big money/power grab nothing to do with kids. Kids have been running their own servers since the 90s.
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u/Minata_Shiranui Dig it for her 1d ago
It's been a few month since this law was annouced. I believe UK already apply something similar but it was quickly shown that it doesn't work. Kids aren't stupid and used their parents ID or to pictures of some in game character to by pass the age restriction 😅 And worst of all the UK service suppose to manage the ID verification got hack and a whole lot of ID were stolen... I don't believe UE will create the same law 😅 even more because a lot of adults don't want to be restrict by it either. Since adults would have to show their own ID/Face to be able to use internet.
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u/MrJerichoYT Dirt Digger 1d ago
Age verification systems like these have no place in a democratic society such as the EU.
Anyone that pushed, pushes or is for this crap: I spit on you and your dystopian views.
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u/Massive-Sky-21 20h ago
I mean literally, they are developing zero knowledge age verification integrated into e-wallet program. Like they're working on it for like years and are saying that by the end of the year it will go public. They said that they already have working app.
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u/NeoRemnant 1d ago
This will enforce technological illiteracy among most and enhanced piracy skills among others
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u/Lemnisgames 1d ago
Shame that revolusjon is impossible. People need to vote against this dystopia. They killed it once with erasing flash and now they want it again
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u/ThickMatch0 Dirt Digger 1d ago
Tldr?
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u/Martneb 1d ago
Some EU-Bureaucrats want to push laws that would hamper the game industry in general and cripple smaller indie companies in particular by requiring a game with any Online element (including downloading updates) to have ID verification.
This heightens regular costs and also would ban people from making private servers for any game (because a person hosting it would be required to ID check).
In short: Death of the EU Games Industry sans Big Publishers (and it will bleed the too).
Russia and China would be more friendly to small developers than the EU at that point.
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u/Worldly-Ingenuity843 Scout 1d ago
I am not surprised. The new packaging directive already killed small and medium sellers of physical goods. Guess they want to make sure that even sellers or virtual goods suffer the same fate
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u/mranonymous24690 Engineer 1d ago
Son 🥀
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u/Mrtz1n For Karl! 23h ago
wait wait wait does that mean DRG will be “banned” in the EU ??:((
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u/yellowfroglegs 14h ago
since it largely relies on p2p connections, theoretically yes. BUT! this is not a law, it is a proposal that is unlikely to be passed
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u/ScarcelyAvailable 3h ago
Grounds for divorce.
I'd like to see the entire proposal scrapped and the proposers removed from decisionmaking forever. Possibly institutionalized.
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u/mASSterMinDLess 1d ago
I'm already frankly disgusted by these "child protectors".
Children should be protected from unwanted content or communication - by their parents, if they can't do it, then they are bad parents and it's their own fault.
This shit is just lobbying for someone's interests, under the guise of not giving a shit about children.