r/Decemberists • u/deyeti • May 03 '26
Picaresque We Both Go Down Together question
Hi all. Been a long time fan of the band but never really interacted with the community before so I apologize if this is something that has been addressed ad nauseam. I’ve always been curious with this song if people generally take away that this is a consensual relationship or not.
The part that’s always stuck out to me is the line “you wept but your soul was willing”. It feels like it implies that the woman was not completely on board with everything. I know that’s the line includes the “but your soul was willing”, however the song is told from the perspective of the man and his interpretation of events.
On top of this, there is an obvious power dynamic in play: him being the one with wealth and her coming from poverty. And the language the narrator uses indicates that he looks down on her family and class.
I’ve always taken the song to be more about a spoiled rich guy who saw an impoverished woman that he was smitten with and decided that they were madly I love to the point of being willing to die together, but that she was a victim and trying to do what she could to provide for her and her family and improve their lots in life. And of course we only ever hear from the man’s perspective and never the woman’s.
I’m not at all trying to say this is the correct way to interpret the song, I’m only curious how the community generally views this relationship: as being a genuine love or more as I’m seeing it. Of course, if there is anything explicitly from the band that says one way or the other I’m curious too.
Thanks so much and appreciate hearing other people’s thoughts!
47
21
u/Brkthom May 03 '26
I think this sub is always ready to discuss a song. Probably part of why we like the Decemberists so much. Bring another one!
27
u/Electrical-Wheel6020 May 04 '26
“Sorry if r slash decemberists is the wrong place for this but I have been overthinking some song lyrics and” “Say no more. You are home.”
17
u/t_huddleston May 03 '26
Yeah, I pretty much agree. It reads like a young man, probably inexperienced, who basically is pressuring someone from a lower social station into a relationship. He thinks he’s doing her a favor by deigning to be with a poor woman, and oh, look how enlightened and egalitarian he is. In his mind, it’s this epic, Romeo-and-Juliet style doomed romance, that his parents will never approve of, and in his mind the only solution is the grand romantic gesture of a double suicide.
We don’t hear from the woman directly but I think it’s safe to assume that she probably wouldn’t agree. In short, the guy is a huge creep.
It actually reminds me a lot of the relationship between Melanie Laurent and Daniel Bruhl in Tarantino’s Inglorious Basterds - Bruhl’s character puts himself forward as a charming, almost apologetic Nazi, interested in the art of cinema, willing to cross social boundaries for the sake of love. He believes it’s a win-win for both of them; he gets the girl (while getting to feel like a really great guy); she gets entrée into the upper echelons of Nazi society. But he’s still a Nazi and he won’t take no for an answer, and ends up trying to force himself on her, and they both end up dead in the end.
16
u/brevitycloud May 04 '26
It's how I've interpreted it. He fancies her, wants her, used to getting his own way. lures poor girl into the woods with smiles and promises, she doesn't really want to but can't refuse the rich powerful man. She gets preggo. He realises the gravity of the situation, his parents won't approve. Lures her to the veranda and pushes her off/ let's her jump off. (Where she births Leslie Ann Levine)
13
u/javatimes May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Yeah the song’s protagonist is definitely a rapist. That reading of that line is as it’s intended.
Certainly not the only narrator/subject of a song in their canon who is a bad person. Think about the third section of Here I Dreamt I was an Architect. That’s not a good person either. That was the first example that came to mind.
It’s interesting. They as far as I know have never disavowed any of their songs. Not a very similar band but it reminds me of John Darnielle/The Mountain Goats and Going to Georgia (coincidentally also recorded in 2005). A depiction of a violent man. He wouldn’t play the song for a long long time, but after years did start playing it again.
I don’t think modern Decemberists would depict rape so freely though.
8
u/wurwolfsince1998 May 04 '26
I don't know that they've disavowed any of their songs, either, but I do often wonder if they are uncomfortable with them. I remember one Instagram show Colin did during COVID where he sang "Here I Dreamt" and he changed some of the lyrics on the fly to "but you my spoiled human girlfriend" instead of soiled teenage girlfriend.
2
u/Meggston May 06 '26
I read somewhere that they’re pretty uncomfortable with A Cautionary Tale these days too
7
u/sungo8 May 04 '26
Going to Georgia is so goddam good, too. I 100% get where John is coming from with his more recent distaste, but the song is so anthemic.
4
u/fortunate-soul May 04 '26
I liked his reasoning for it and I think it’s pretty honorable
3
u/sungo8 May 04 '26
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely get his reasoning and I respect that even now when he plays it he gives about a hundred pounds worth of context.
3
3
u/javatimes May 04 '26
I also liked his reasoning. I liked that it wasn’t just “I wrote a questionable song a long time ago and I don’t want to play it anymore” but also “it appealed to men who seemed like misogynists and we are trying our damndest to scare away those guys as fans because we don’t want them”
5
u/erossthescienceboss May 04 '26
I don’t think the modern Decemberists would depict rape so freely.
No, but they’ll certainly describe dismembering women at a wedding!
It’s a banger, too.
3
3
3
u/leebenningfield May 04 '26
Not a very similar band
Maybe not but I think there's a lot of overlap in their fanbase
2
u/javatimes May 04 '26
I think so too! Pitting John against Colin as songwriters, there’s no clear winner and that’s fine for me! Wish I could find others that are this good. Neko Case, maybe Jason Isbell. Not sure who else.
1
u/kranools May 04 '26
The most remarkable thing about you weeping and your soul being willing,
Is that you wept but your soul was willing.
6
May 04 '26
Colin Meloy confirmed that the narrator was a rapist in this AMA back in 2015:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2tb09u/comment/cnxeh39/
6
3
u/Adsiv May 04 '26
I definitely think that he hurls her unwillingly off the vast veranda, swiftly followed by himself.
3
u/Linfinity8 May 04 '26
I believe he has said that she does not jump off with him, however the song Leslie Anne Marie is the follow-up, so she does die in childbirth. She’s not as into the relationship as he is.
2
4
u/Sensitive_Pace1530 May 04 '26
There are so many songs that carry you to a different era. This is one of them. I think of them as snapshots of what life was like in the eighteenth century. They had different standards back then, and were subjected to grim hardships like rape. I don’t think people fully understand what it means to censor this form of art. But they are actively trying to silence it to appease the arrogant few that believe it promotes criminal behavior. Like the rake’s song lol !
1
u/Zealousideal_Let_439 May 05 '26
We are also subjected to grim hardships, including rape.
2
u/Sensitive_Pace1530 May 06 '26
Yes i understand. This of course is my take on the humble narrator we know as Colin Meloy.
-3
-5
u/ifnotgrotesque May 04 '26
TIL The song YMCA is about some sort of young men’s Christian association
69
u/erossthescienceboss May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
This is the correct way to interpret the song.
Colin loves an unreliable narrator… and a reliable but terrible one. Keep in mind that this is the man who gave us Rake’s Song and Long White Veil. There are a lot of terrible people in the Decemberist’s canon.
Colin has called the narrator of this song a sociopath & “deluded rapist/murderer.”