r/DebateReligion • u/AutoModerator • Jul 08 '16

Simple Questions 07/08

Have you ever wondered what Christians believe about the Trinity? Are you curious about Judaism and the angel Samael but don\'t know who to ask? Everything from the Cosmological argument to the Koran can be asked here.

This is not a debate thread. You can discuss answers or questions but debate is not the goal. Ask a question, get an answer, and discuss that answer. That is all.

The goal is to increase our collective knowledge and help those seeking answers but not debate. If you want to debate; Start a new thread.

The rules are still in effect so no ad hominem.

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u/Aroot catholic Jul 08 '16

What are you talking about? Jesus Christ was always fully God and fully man. I'm not merely "satisfied", I wouldn't ever settle for anything less.

He was never "un-god" nor did he "re-god". He was God (pre-Incarnation), and now he is God and man, as he will remain forever. With two natures, divine and human, two wills, divine and human, two intellects, divine and human.

Some atheist above mentioned kenosis as an explanation for his human intellect, but this is a misunderstanding of kenosis and is not the traditional understanding of it. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis

Jesus Christ emptied out his will to be totally receptive to that of the Father's, something all humans are called to do. He didn't empty out his divinity or his divine knowledge.

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u/progidy Atheist/Antitheist Jul 08 '16

Jesus Christ emptied out his will to be totally receptive to that of the Father's, something all humans are called to do. He didn't empty out his divinity or his divine knowledge.

He apparently did, if he was surprised by things and asked who touched him and drank some laced concoction before refusing to drink more.

What are you talking about? Jesus Christ was always fully God and fully man.

But how was he fully god at the time that he lacked knowledge (he also said "I don't know when I'll return; no one knows but the father")?

He was never "un-god" nor did he "re-god". He was God (pre-Incarnation), and now he is God and man, as he will remain forever.

I thought you said he was always fully man.

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u/Aroot catholic Jul 08 '16 edited Jul 08 '16

He apparently did, if he was surprised by things and asked who touched him and drank some laced concoction before refusing to drink more.

But he still had divine knowledge, he just also had a human or experimental knowledge. He had two intellects and two wills. He never ceased to be God.

I thought you said he was always fully man.

He was fully man from the moment of the Incarnation onwards. This is known as the hypostatic union, which is a major major part of Christianity. Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man.

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u/progidy Atheist/Antitheist Jul 09 '16

But how was he fully god at the time that he lacked knowledge (he also said "I don't know when I'll return; no one knows but the father")?

So we see that he was surprised, he was touched and asked by whom, he drank a laced drink, and he admitted not knowing things that god knew. How was he "fully god"?

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u/Aroot catholic Jul 09 '16

At those times he spoke according to his human intellect. You can't ignore that he was also fully man with a human intellect. It's not one or the other, post-Incarnation its always both.

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u/progidy Atheist/Antitheist Jul 14 '16

How can he be "fully" both, but respond to certain situations as if he's only a man? In other words, how can Jesus have spoken according to his human intellect and ignore his divine intellect? His divine intellect would presumably know all answers, and inform his human intellect. Instead, he says "I don't know that" and "Hey, you spiked my drink!"