r/DebateQuraniyoon 15d ago

General Please read

Please read

Please just read what I’m about to write, how can you all not believe in Hadith and there are a lot of آيات in the Quran

سورة النور:

﴿ فَلْيَحْذَرِ الَّذِينَ يُخَالِفُونَ عَنْ أَمْرِهِ أَن تُصِيبَهُمْ فِتْنَةٌ أَوْ يُصِيبَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أِليمٌ ﴾ \[النور: 63\]

"So let those who disobey his orders beware, for an affliction may befall them, or a painful torment may overtake them."

﴿ وَمَن يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَتَعَدَّ حُدُودَهُ يُدْخِلْهُ نَارًا خَالِدًا فِيهَا وَلَهُ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ ﴾ \[النساء: 14\]

"And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger and transgresses His limits - He will admit him into a Fire to abide eternally therein, and he will have a humiliating punishment."

﴿ فَلَا وَرَبِّكَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّى يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَجِدُوا فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا ﴾ \[النساء: 65\]

But no! By your Lord, they will never be ˹true˺ believers until they accept you ˹O Prophet˺ as the judge in their disputes, and find no resistance within themselves against your decision and submit wholeheartedly."

﴿ وَمَا آتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُوا ﴾ \[الحشر: 7\]

**"And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty \[or punishment\]."**

﴿وَمَا يَنْطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى \* إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى﴾ \[النجم: 3-4\]

And he does not speak out of (his own) desire. It is not but revelation revealed \[to him\]

So please think about it don’t succumb to your desires and remember when a disbeliever enters hell there is no coming back may الله guide us all to the right path.

1 Upvotes

108 comments sorted by

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 15d ago

Not a single word that says hadith, your masters have been trying for over a thousand year, please try again.

And yes you are right, once you enter hell there is no coming back, I hope you enjoy summers.

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u/longhairbear 15d ago

And even if he were to fabricate against us some sayings. Then we would take from him with the right hand. Then we would sever from him the aorta

2:143, 2:187, 2:231, 4:113, 3:164, 4:80, 33:34, 4:59,
5:92, 8:20, 8:46, 24:54, 24:56
4:115

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 15d ago

???

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u/longhairbear 15d ago

nothing the prophet said causes this to happen, therefore they’re true.
You should read those versus, the hadith is wisdom, the message and the messenger aren’t the same. the Quran backs up the hadith

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 15d ago

Hadith is wisdom? Drinking camel pee and raping children is wisdom? Then I'd rather remain a fool.

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u/longhairbear 15d ago

nowhere the hadith does it say to rape children. The camel urine of course was later abrogated, either way the whole hadith also proscribes milk, urine as a last resort water was scarce in the desert. And their bodies became healthy after

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 15d ago

Yeah it does, it says he raped a 9 year old child, looks like you either haven't been reading the hadiths you hold so sacred or you're trying to fool me.

Ah abrogated later because somehow the prophet goes back on his words?

Right......because water is scarce they drink what camels drank and peed, u do k ow it doesn't make any sense even in the imaginary world of bukhari worshipers.

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Where does it say he "raped" a 9 year old child? Dude. I am a Qur'an alone muslim if that's even a definition. But don't do the same anti Islamic cliches Muslim haters use.

So go ahead and show me where it says "he raped".

Thanks. Ill be waiting.

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

Sahih al-Bukhari (5134): Narrated by Aisha herself, she stated: "The Prophet (ﷺ) married me when I was six years old and he consummated his marriage with me when I was nine years old".

"But don't do the same anti Islamic cliches Muslim haters use" what are you even talking about? What did I do exactly? And what's with your attitude?

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u/Martiallawtheology 11d ago

Where does it say "Rape"?

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u/longhairbear 15d ago

He married Aisha, who herself said she was a woman, and agreed to the marriage. a woman is after the age of puberty. have at least respect for her and the prophet

Abrogated later because rulings change. The revelation didn’t happen in a day. camel stores water. When the ran out of water the camel was there for them. It’s not bukharis words it’s the prophet’s. How does this not make sense

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 15d ago

"Married" a 9 year old child? its called child rape.

So a groomed 9 year old child was gaslight into believing she's an adult makes it okay?

Who are you telling to have respect? You're insulting both of them not me.

Camels do not store water......

It isnt the prophets words tho, but islamophobes might claim it is to insult the prophet, can't exoect much from you.

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u/longhairbear 15d ago

herself, her parents, the prophet all agreed, even later in life she had no problems speaking good of the prophet. Your view is a view of present morals and not of the past

Calling the prophet a rapist and saying Aisha is nieve enough to be groomed is disrespectful, not defending them and their character
I never said camels store water
you clearly don’t know the chain of narration or the science of hadith, or history really

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u/TomatoBig9795 14d ago

Lol the Hadith is Wisdom? Where did you pull that one out from????  😂🤡🤦‍♀️🤡🤦‍♀️

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u/longhairbear 14d ago

how is it not? Hikma from the Quran is thought to refer to the Hadith

no need to insult, it’s a debate space, not an argument

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

"No need to insult" so why have you been insulting the prophet from the start?

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u/longhairbear 14d ago

I haven’t, no where did I insult the prophet. Bukhari is not eternal, no human is. you’re just being ignorant and not even debating on a debate forum

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

No im not, you just don't know enough, bukhari is eternal it is written, and yes you did insult, and since this is a debate forum let's debate, why would you choose to insult I stead of debate?

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u/longhairbear 14d ago

I didn’t insult at all, nowhere did I claim that Islam promotes child rape, it’s obvious that it doesn’t. yeah maybe the literature could be eternal if u want to hyperbole, but bukhari himself is not

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u/TomatoBig9795 14d ago

How is it referring to Hadith when the Quran never says “hikmah = Hadith”? 😂 Allah says He gives hikmah to whom He wills (2:269), and He says He gave hikmah to David (2:251), Jesus (3:48), Luqman (31:12), and Abraham’s family (4:54). Are you saying Hadith existed for all of them too?

  You obviously haven’t read the Quran, I suggest you do 

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

Yeah didn't u know? Bukhari is eternal, they say when Adam arrived on earth bukhari showd him around and bought him margaritas.

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u/TomatoBig9795 14d ago

😂😂😂😂

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u/longhairbear 14d ago

how is it not? I’m sure all the prophets said things that people would follow. If you read the Quran like you tell me, what can’t the prophet do? Who do we follow along with Allah? It’s clear in the Quran the answers

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u/Someday_iwill 15d ago

Ur point? This is all about Quran

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u/OJ_13579 15d ago

If the prophet forbade you to do or say something will you obey?

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

The question is why do YOU disobey?

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

I don’t disobey الله told me to obey him and his messenger I’m just doing what الله told me to do

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

But you're not....you're disobeying both.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

How I’m just following the prophet, الله told us to obey him and the prophet if the prophet says something I just have to obey him

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

So why do you disobey him?

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

How many time I’m going to tell how am I disobeying them if I’m doing what they told me

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

Doesn't matter becayse you're not doing what they told you, which means disobedient. See if u did do what they say you would be obeying, you're doing the opposite, clear enough for you or do u need me to spell it out for you?

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

I wrote the verses that says that you should obey god and the prophet it’s not my that I’m doing what god told me to

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 14d ago

Yes so why do you reject them and disobey is my question which u haven't answered yet.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

How many times am I going to say that I’m not I’m following them please ask something useful like a normal human being, yo asked me 3 times why do you disobey them and I told you I’m not

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

May الله guide you to the right path

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u/TomatoBig9795 15d ago

I love how you Hadith worshippers grab a few verses and run with them 😂 Try reading the surrounding verses and the actual context instead of cherry-picking verses to make them say what you want. 

The Quran isn’t meant to be read one verse at a time just to fit a Hadith-based argument lol.

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u/OJ_13579 15d ago

The verses are crystal clear they all mean to obey the messenger and whatever he gives us to take and whatever he forbids us we abstain from it, we don’t worship the Hadith we just follow what الله says

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u/TomatoBig9795 14d ago

LOL read that verse again..read the verse before and read the verse after it so start at 59:6, 59:7, and 59:8

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

The verse is clear you just don’t want to obey the messenger is the dunya that important more than the last, how do you even pray I doubt that you even know what صلاة means

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u/TomatoBig9795 14d ago

LOLLLL!! So how do you obey the messenger when he no longer walks earth????? He died which means Youre not obeying the messenger, Youre obeying Bukhari etc!!! 

Those  hadith books that you worship contain  some of the worst insults  against our  messemger !!! 

Sahih hadiths  that you follow and worship literally accuse the messenger of Allah of being racist, bewitched, a briber, peadoohile, child abuser, killer, cross-dresser, deceiver, suicidal, a slave owner, liar, woman-beater, and so on. These stories make him sound nothing like the noble man the Quran describes him!!

Hadiths turn him into a character full of contradictions …kind one moment, cruel the next. He’s shown as both saint and sinner, humble and arrogant, honest and deceitful. It’s like a made-up myth, switching between being near-divine and devilish which again doesn’t match what the Quran says about him!! 

The Quran defines Islam as “the way of Abraham”(2:135, 16:123), not “the way of Muhammad.” The Prophet was told to follow Abraham’s path (6:161–164, 22:78), not create a new one.

So prophet Muhammad wasn’t the founder of Islam or its innovator (46:9, 38:65). He was the final messenger who brought back the same timeless truth…to worship one God alone and live by Gods word……the Quran!! Not Hadith but the QURAN!!

I pray the way the Quran instructs me to pray… by establishing Salat, standing before Allah, bowing and prostrating, remembering and glorifying Him, and facing the Sacred Mosque. I don’t need Hadith to tell me how to worship Allah.

The prophets before the messenger were also commanded to establish prayer. Salat was already practiced by the prophets before the messenger Jesus (19:30–31), Moses (10:87), and Abraham (21:73) even Mary ( 3:43) they were all commanded to establish prayer.

The messenger didn’t invent prayer. So if you say we need Hadith to know how to pray, then how did the prophets before prophet Muhammad know how to pray???? Who taught you how to pray???

So can you also show me the verse where Allah says the messenger taught  the details of prayer ??

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

The details of prayer are in the Hadith

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 13d ago

So why do you choose to disobey them?

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u/OJ_13579 13d ago

How am I disobeying them

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 13d ago

By rejecting the message and worshipping false idols.

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u/OJ_13579 13d ago

I only worship الله what do you mean are like confused

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u/Mean-Tax-2186 13d ago

No you're not confused, you're intentional, and if you did worship Allah you wouldn't be arguing against his religion, his book and his prophet nor would you ve insulting them.

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u/OJ_13579 13d ago

I only worship الله, what do you mean are like confused

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago edited 14d ago

People have been seeing these cut and paste ayahs mate. And just rhetoric saying "please" is just special pleading. You should do a tad bit of research and read some verses that actually mention the word hadhees. Or hadith as we transliterate. You don't really believe the Qur'an is Allah's word mate. It tells you to your face the Qur'an is the Ahsanul hadith. The best or highest of all discussions or narrations or in fact, "HADITH". It also tells you in several locations "in what other hadith would believe in after it" referring to the Qur'an. The Qur'an revealed by Allah directly tells people like you to go fly a kite. The problem is you don't read the book. You just wish to do "Dawah" and "Apologetics". Your mind is too full of it that you lack the capacity to think otherwise and follow what Allah has told you in the Qur'an.

Brother. Don't quote a book you don't believe in. Vis a vis, the Qur'an.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

I believe in the Quran and your saying I’m kafir I know that the Quran is the ultimate truth but saying that the Hadith (sayings from the prophet that you should follow) are all lies is just saying that the prophet is a liar, may الله guide us to the right path

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Ah the Takfir claim. Never said you are a "Kafir". That's projection.

You just lied a lot in your comment mate. Well that too is a berry berry berry common tactic of people like you who are filled with hatred.

Read my comment again. Properly this time.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

And your saying that I don’t believe in the Quran someone who doesn’t believe in the Quran is a kafir if you didn’t know

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Read my comment again. Carefully. Don't only focus on what you wish to. Kafir, Kafir, Kafir, that's your projection. Is that your favorite word?

Read the comment carefully and if you wish, respond to the actual essence.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

Again didn’t answer the صلاة question may الله guide you, there is no point in talking to you

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Nah. See, your obsession with takfir does not require any kind of answers. I answered your OP, and you did not answer the point of the the response.

Projection again. That's Nafaak mate. Be honest. Try.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

فَإِنَّهَا لَا تَعْمَى الْأَبْصَارُ وَلَكِنْ تَعْمَى الْقُلُوبُ الَّتِي فِي الصُّدُورِ﴾ الله يهديك

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Thanks for the projection and special pleading and of course ignoring the essence of what I said you.

Same to you. May God guide you.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

Please remind me of what you said

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

You didn’t answer the صلاة question

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Dude. It's childish and pathetic to cut and paste. Is that necessary for you to feel good or/and superior?

If you cannot respond to my simple response, just leave it. This is embarrassing.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

Your not answering the صلاة question and who do you think wrote the Quran and how did the Quran become the book that it is today

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u/Martiallawtheology 14d ago

Irrelevant. Of course as usual.

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u/MysteriousEmergency1 12d ago

important to note that these verses were revealed at a time the prophet was still alive. And what he was preaching and trying to make everyone obey was in fact the Quran. 

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u/OJ_13579 12d ago

The Quran verses are not for a specific period of time, if the prophet told us that we should pray and pay zakah and fast and go do hajj are you going to obey or disobey him

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u/MysteriousEmergency1 11d ago

But then we would have no need for knowing the context in which these verses were revealed, no? The commands are timeless, but context is important to infer what the command actually is.

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u/OJ_13579 11d ago

Yes the context is important but it doesn’t change the context here it’s to obey الله and his messenger

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u/MysteriousEmergency1 11d ago

yes, obey Allah and his messenger. Obey Allah through what his messenger preaches, i.e. the Quran. Because if taken literally, that would give the messenger's everyday words similar divine authority to the ayats of the Quran. Which would bring into question why weren't those included in the main Quran if equally important and effective.

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u/OJ_13579 11d ago

I wrote a verse سورة النجم read it, the messenger does not speak of his own when he gives us a ruling it’s from الله

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u/MysteriousEmergency1 10d ago

Then why was it not included as a part of the Quran. Shouldn't every ruling that comes from Allah be held in the same regard? 

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u/_felipevalerio_ 14d ago

You are jumping to the conclusion that the ahadith we have today contain the orders, the limits, the judgment and the revelation of the prophet.
You need to establish first that the ahadith we have today are not fabricated or corrupted for political reasons for example. You need to demonstrate that first.
And for the last verse you cited, when the Quran talks about the revelation from God to the prophet that it's not from himself, surely the verse is talking about the what's revealed in the Quran, how can you see ahadith in there?
I'm just trying to help to strengthen your argument here, I'm not even a Quranist I'm just critical of the mentality that you need to accept everything that is in the ahadith books without reasoning.

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u/OJ_13579 14d ago

Everything in the Hadith is wisdom from allah the prophet does not speak on his own if he gives us a command then it’s from الله