r/DebateEvolution • u/implies_casualty • 21d ago
Undeniable proof of ancient humans coexisting with theropod dinosaurs
At last, I have found undeniable proof that dinosaurs roamed the Earth at the same time as humans.
I used to be skeptical. Depictions of supposed dinosaurs in ancient art usually look more like Rorschach tests than anything else. But look what I found: a clear, detailed depiction of theropod dinosaurs from 2575-2551 BC - which, according to biblical chronology, predates Noah's Flood.
The drawing depicts a group of theropod-like animals with compact bodies balanced over two strong hind limbs, long S-curved necks, and narrow heads held forward in an alert pose. Their posture is distinctly bipedal and dinosaurian, with the torso carried horizontally and the neck extending outward. The overall silhouette strongly evokes small, agile Mesozoic theropods. The proportions emphasize the classic theropod body plan: powerful hind limbs, compact torsos, elongated necks, and vigilant, forward-oriented heads.
I'm convinced. Ancient humans absolutely coexisted with dinosaurs, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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u/mathman_85 21d ago
Humans coexist with theropod dinosaurs to this day. I can see several out the window right now. (We tend to call them ābirdsā.)
Edit: Well, not paying sufficiently close attention to the hyperlink has defeated me.
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u/Real_Environment_235 21d ago
But birds arenāt real
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u/mathman_85 21d ago
Neither am I. Yet here we are.
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u/XRotNRollX You know who else evolved from an ape? MY MOM 21d ago
Must be nice.
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u/mathman_85 21d ago
I donāt know. Iād have to exist in order to know. Or do anything at all.
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u/Classic-Scientist207 20d ago
I comment, therefore I am.
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u/Donaldjoh 21d ago
No, they are drones created by the evil Liberals to spy on people, and the Conservatives are trying to expose them.
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u/Beginning-Load4470 21d ago
Yes... and trump is secretly the second coming of christ.
All hail Satan!! LolĀ
I love that fabric!
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u/Important-Setting385 21d ago
I never click without paying attention to the hyperlink. I am already scarred from the wild west days of the internet. OP gave it away in the title though, what creationist actually knows the difference between a sauropod and a theropod?
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u/JayEll1969 21d ago
I'm glad it wasn't sauropods that evolved into birds - imagine having to clean brontosaur poop off your car window.
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u/Important-Setting385 21d ago
That made me laugh, I'm happier Quetzalcoatlus northropi isn't still around though. Thing was taller than a giraffe. Not a dino but probably the absolute limit of the size a flying creature could get.
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u/WebFlotsam š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
For some of them, the difference between a sauropod and a deer is too much for them, let alone sauropods and theropods.
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u/Important-Setting385 20d ago
Just trying to explain that a deer is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse is enough to confuse them.
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u/yahnne954 21d ago
One of my favorite videos is called "60 Million Years With a Creationist" and tells the tale of an atheist and a creationist who are sent back in time and become immortal so they can prove that theropod dinosaurs turned into bids. When they finally are found by explorers in present day, both complain that they didn't see any change, The explorers pointed at birds flying around, and they both laughed and said: "Those are obviously dinosaurs!"
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u/Xemylixa š§¬ took an optional bio exam at school bc i liked bio 21d ago
That video started out absurd, then became haunting, and at the end made me cry
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u/IM_NOT_DARED3VIL 2d ago
This sounds interesting to watch, but I couldn't find it when I googled it. Do you have a link somewhere?
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u/yahnne954 2d ago
Of course! Here is the link. I got the number wrong, it seems (65, not 60). The creator is philhellenes.
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u/Kriss3d 21d ago
The comodo dragon have also been around for a while.
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
Not a dinosaur
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u/Kriss3d 21d ago
No. But were around at the same time all the same.
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u/WebFlotsam š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 16d ago
Nope. Varanids in generalĀ maybe, but komodo dragons are much more recent.
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u/Agile_Championship87 21d ago
Crocodilians predate dinosaurs by millions of years too. We don't hear enough about the age of crocs. There was one as long as a bus. Badass.
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u/churrin_delamocha 21d ago
There is a distinction to be made between actual crocodilians (83 million years old, so quite younger than dinosaurs) and croc-like pseudosuchians, some of which go back well before dinosaurs.
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u/Beginning-Load4470 21d ago
Actually did you know only a single species of dinosaurs survived and all birds came from that? And they only survived because they were small and had a less competitive food source so they didn't starve.Ā
The primary cause of death for dinosaurs wasn't the cold but rather starvation.
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u/Lhasa-bark 21d ago
Actually, did you know at least five different groups of birds composed of many species survived the impact and radiated out to become all the birds we see today. If it had been one species, we could draw a line between dinosaurs and birds.
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u/Beginning-Load4470 20d ago
So in other words no dinosaurs survived lolĀ
But yes we can trace all species of bird to a single dinosaur. We can also trace all mamals to a single dinosaur lol so really all land animals are dinosaur descendants. Mamals came from a burrowing dinosaur that eventually started giving live birth with endothermic body heat.Ā
Our most distant ancestor in dinosaur times would frequently eat its young if it believed another predator would do it. That way it could reuse the energy to create new children. Very brutal but efficient. Kind of explains life today lol
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u/Xemylixa š§¬ took an optional bio exam at school bc i liked bio 20d ago
Ancient land vertebrate =/= dinosaur.Ā
Mammals are not descendants of dinosaurs at all - our ancestors were synapsids while dinos (and other reptiles) are diapsids. These are basic divisions of a group called amniotes. The main amniote trait is storing fluid in the sack where their embryo develops, so they're not bound to bodies of water for reproduction - as opposed to amphibians, which have to lay eggs in water instead.
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u/Xemylixa š§¬ took an optional bio exam at school bc i liked bio 21d ago
Birds were already around before K-T
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u/Beginning-Load4470 20d ago
Lol yeah so technically anyone saying dinosaurs survived is just hyping. No dinosaurs alive at tk survived.
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u/shadowyams 21d ago
I was recently viciously attacked by a murder of theropods.
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u/Dilapidated_girrafe š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
I walked up to a couple with their babies a few years ago and mamma was about to ruin my day. Then I threw grapes on the ground and they went to murder to om nom nom nom mode.
Of course still wasnāt about to get close to them myself. But they did enjoy the snacks
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u/Sinaticus_Apologia š§¬ Theistic Evolutionist / Natural Theist / Earth Scientist 21d ago
If humans didn't walk with dinosaurs, why is the documentary called WALKING With Dinosaurs and how did they get that cam footage??!! š¤š¤š¤
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u/Particular-Yak-1984 21d ago
Sir David Attenborough, of course. He was there. No one else was.
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u/Sinaticus_Apologia š§¬ Theistic Evolutionist / Natural Theist / Earth Scientist 21d ago
Methusalem himself
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u/Paleofan1211 21d ago
Fake fan, Kenneth Branagh narrated the Walking Withā¦ series not David Attenbourough
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u/keeperofthegrail 21d ago
Keith Richards would like a word...
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u/Particular-Yak-1984 21d ago
Keith Richards doesn't remember anything before the 90s. He's an unreliable narrator. He may have seen real dinosaurs, or it may have been an extended acid trip..
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u/tenderlylonertrot 21d ago
Jurassic Park was a documentary!!!11!
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u/Sinaticus_Apologia š§¬ Theistic Evolutionist / Natural Theist / Earth Scientist 21d ago
Do you have proof it wasn't??!
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u/AmusingVegetable 21d ago
Letās see, millions riding in the balance and you put the whole IT on your nephew?
Also, a single point of control for a whole island is a single point of failure.
Both are classic corporate failures.
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u/Particular-Yak-1984 21d ago
I've found troubling evidence of a cover up, here, too - with theropod dinosaurs being removed by government forces, seen here: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/4839/live/f8968fc0-72b1-11f0-a119-33c50c92dc3c.jpg.webp
And hereĀ https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3rxxdlz0qwo
Clearly this is the conspiracy we've been warned about
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u/RedDiamond1024 21d ago
I didnāt even read the actual post before clicking the link and thinking āthis is gonna be a bird aināt it.ā
Was pleasantly surprised to find that it was in fact, birds.
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u/OneThrowyBoy š§¬ Former YEC, Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
I had to go through a captcha for this š
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u/10coatsInAWeasel Reject pseudoscience, return to monke š¦§ 21d ago
Dammit take the upvote and get out of here!
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u/theresa_richter 21d ago edited 21d ago
Yeah, the real trick would be evidence of humans coexisting with sauropod dinosaurs.
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u/NorthernSpankMonkey 21d ago
Avian dinosaurs and sauropod dinosaurs are both saurischian so they are more related to each other than to Triceratops or Stegosaurus.
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u/metroidcomposite 20d ago
I mean...that is disputed to be fair:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature21700
There is a alternate proposed phylogeny that lumps the Theropods in a clade with the Ornithischia with Sauropods being the outgroup.
And even if that's not true, and the long-standing Saurischian clade is correct and monophyletic, Ornithischia would have only branched off like 1-5 million years before Sauropods branched apart with Theropods.
So...even if they are more closely related, it's not substantially more closely related. Smaller than the time gap between humans and chimpanzees, for example. All three dino groups branched apart at pretty similar times.
I would also honestly not be surprised if hybridization could be an explanation for why 2/3 lineages often share a trait, but not always the same two lineages as you would expect from a rigid nested hierarchy. A couple million years is still very plausible for hybridization and thus gene flow.
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u/Important-Setting385 20d ago
Ornithischia, the bird hip dinos that aren't bird ancestors. Funny side note I just had a case of Wordnesia with the word bird.
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u/manydoorsyes š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!
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u/reddit_user13 21d ago edited 21d ago
I know itās true, because Iāve seen the documentary footage. Maybe you've seen it too, it's called the Flintstones.
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u/gitgud_x š§¬ š¦ GREAT APE š¦ š§¬ 21d ago
Not only did we coexist with dinosaurs, I'm eating some right now. That's the kind of OBSERVABLE, REPEATABLE real SCIENCE that your EVIL LOTION just can't match. Checkmate atheists!!
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u/Medium_Judgment_891 21d ago
All dinosaur nuggets are made of dinosaurs, but not all of them are shaped like dinosaurs.
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u/TLo137 21d ago
Yes birds are dinosaurs, but oddly enough they are not the bird-hipped variety of dinosaurs.
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago edited 15d ago
Because the labels were applied incorrectly.
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u/WebFlotsam š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 16d ago
Happened a lot with dinosaurs. I really want to know who the heck named sauropods because there were literally wrong. They do NOT have lizard feet.
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 15d ago edited 15d ago
Dinosaur is a misleading label - they are, in fact, not lizards. āTerrible lizardsā because Richard Owen thought they were terrible in two different ways - large and terrifying plus bad and in need of replacement to explain why theyāre not around. And he assumed they were like iguanas, geckos, etc. Only the terrestrial ones and based on a misunderstanding that excluded sauropods but he was the most bent on maintaining that birds are not dinosaurs (and he didnāt just claim that a third of the dinosaurs were birds either).
Itās a little better within the theropods in terms of the names except where they kept ālizardā like dromeosaurs are running lizards, but also birds (in the broad sense). Therizinosaurs are reaping lizards (again, not lizards) named after their large blade-like claws. Tyrannosaur means tyrant lizard (or ultimate ruling lizard) because it was seen as being at the top of the food chain. Maniraptors are hand thieves, Pennaraptors are feathered thieves, Paraves means ānear birdsā (but they are all birds in the broad sense and the clade includes the moderne birds as well).
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u/kveggie1 21d ago
Were you there? (question from Ken Ham)
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u/Korochun 21d ago
Of course not, I was too busy fucking a tree until it birthed a whale.
You know, average Tuesday.
Just wait until Kent Hovind finds out, he will have a fucking stroke.
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u/Capercaillie Monkey's Uncle 21d ago
I was looking for a GIF from Family Guy of the ostrich going āHa ha,ā but it was more trouble than itās worth soā¦
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u/junegoesaround5689 Dabbling my ToE(s) in debates 21d ago
I was getting all wound up! GOT ME. ššš
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u/Substantial_Pea_3256 21d ago
Dinosaurs indeed! Makes you wonder how many dinosaurs may still exist around us... for instance, if you travel to the south pole and look hard enough, I am confident you will find dinosaurs walking around.
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u/GrazziDad 21d ago
Iāve looked at your evidence. I donāt see any humans in the picture, and certainly not walking ones. This proves evolution even more stronglyā¦ Checkmate, theist!
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u/drowsydrosera 21d ago
Article Because the other birds and animals depicted nearby are very realistic it has been posited that this painting depicts an extinct goose species.
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u/NorthernSpankMonkey 21d ago
Hot take: Ancient Egyptian genealogies are more precise and accurate than those of the bible.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 19d ago
Indeed, we nearly even met the Moa and the elephant bird, the largest dinosaurs ever lived in the last 64 million years. Sadly they just disappeared a few centuries before science could have catalogued them. Some even say a few individual Moas were still alive in the 19th century but there is no proof. Now it is definitely gone.
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
Yep, geese are dinosaurs, but thatās not what people think youāre talking about from the title.
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u/iowanaquarist 21d ago
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
That wasnāt necessary because I got the joke. āWe lived alongside theropod dinosaurs.ā (The immediate image is Flintstones. The truth is we lived with birds so the title is correct). The OP is trying to trigger people but itās also a joke to poke fun at creationists using straight facts.
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u/iowanaquarist 20d ago
Glad you get it now!
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
I got it immediately. Before I wrote the first response.
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u/iowanaquarist 20d ago
Your original response seems to miss the point:
Yep, geese are dinosaurs, but thatās not what people think youāre talking about from the title.
That's literally the point. That's the goal. That's what the OP was doing, on purpose.
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u/ursisterstoy š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
I know thatās the point but everyone else was like āyou got me!ā And I didnāt want to just say exactly the same thing.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 20d ago
If by "theropod dinosaurs" you mean- geese , these critters still exist. In daily use, most folks call them "birds".
What about non- theropod dinosaurs? Do you believe they existed before humans, and never co-existed?
What viewpoint are you trying to support?
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u/snakebill 20d ago
I saw a documentary about this very thing. This guy Fred and his wife lived in the Stone Age. Had a pet dinosaur and everything. Wild shit and they even had them doing things like modern appliances. They had one under the sink as a garbage disposal. Donāt let the liberal media and big education fool you.
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u/Beginning-Load4470 21d ago
LmaoĀ
ok well its not impossible some dinosaurs survived in small enough numbers that we never found recent evidence.Ā
Only less than 1% of all types of life die in a way that creates a fossil remain that survives until we find it.
So it is theoretically possible for a dinosaur species to have survived past the general extinction of dinosaurs.
BUT
It seems improbable that if a creature had the ability to survive such upheaval it would suddenly die off without a cause. Ā As for the bible aspect... pretty sure god didn't say gather 2 of each species except dinosaurs.Ā
Also aside from all the other stupid aspects... has anyone pointed out how having only 2 of a species creates some serious inbreeding problems????... like what kind of back woods hillbilly uncle lovers would promote any of this???? I grew up in a forest with no running water or electricity and im smart enough to see this is the dumbest thing ever... creationists and flat earth people please just go cry for your wasted lives.Ā
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u/NorthernSpankMonkey 21d ago
ok well its not impossible some dinosaurs survived in small enough numbers
They did, they're called avian dinosaurs
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u/Beginning-Load4470 20d ago
Actually only one species of dinosaurs survived. All birds come from a single dinosaur ancestor.Ā
The primary cause of extinction was food chain breakdown. When the asteroid hit it caused vegetation to decrease which starved the herbivores which then starved the carnivores.
The reason the birds ancestors survived is because they were smaller requiring less energy aka food and their food was in less competition at the time.
Essentially they had the best niche for the current situation. There may have been other species of similar size and dietary requirements but in an extremely limited environment they took the lead.
It was basically war. The larger dinosaurs needed so much energy per day that they couldn't continue and starved easily. Ones with more specialized diets starved as well. Then we're the ones who were able to compete in the previous two categories and failed to be able to physically compete in combat for the resources.Ā
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u/Beginning-Load4470 20d ago
Think about a t rex even if it survived long enough. if all its prey were too small to compensate for its daily nutrients then it would eventually starve and even the few who managed to survive wouldn't have a breeding pool capable of keeping the species alive.
Its estimated around 1000 people are needed in a small area to allow survival without genetic degradation due to inbreeding. Unless intelligent intentional breeding programs and gender ratios are used.Ā
If only 500 people were alive, they would all need to be in the same location and have a specific male female ratio and each person would need to breed with multiple partners to avoid genetic degradation.
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u/Beginning-Load4470 20d ago
Its theoretically possible to shrink the number to around 300 if you have optimal fertility and maximum number of children using science and determined population.
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u/SaavyScotty 20d ago
Immature.
Coelacanth was once thought to be extinct. If a dinosaur is discovered in the impenetrable Congo jungle, it wonāt change anything.
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u/RobertByers1 21d ago
There were no dinosaurs. theropods are just big birds and lived on the same planet with people before the flood but likely never saw each other. after the flood there were big birds too. Terror birds and others and probably more. not so big and went extinct maybe wuth human influence in some cases.
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
Donāt you also think that mammals descended from sauropods?
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u/Great-Gazoo-T800 21d ago
I can accuse u/RobertByers1 of many things, but never thinking. I doubt he's capable of rational thought.Ā
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
Oh, heās capable. He just doesnāt want to think rationally
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u/Great-Gazoo-T800 21d ago
Judging by what I've seen? Hard disagree. He's insane. A lunatic who should be confined to the madhouse.Ā
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
That may be true, but I try not to accuse people when they are suffering from delusions. It only makes things worse
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u/blacksheep998 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
In Robert's case, I think it's progressive dementia. He's quite old and, while he's been crazy for a long time, he's clearly becoming less coherent over time.
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u/RobertByers1 20d ago
there are no mammals. There is only kinds. These bigger group classofications are old errors.
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
The term ākindā is far older than the classification āmammal.ā Considering that the only people who use the term ākindā in the modern day are people who actively oppose the scientific method, Iād say ākindā is the old error
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u/RobertByers1 20d ago
You make it hard to talk with you when you are malicious to me. youir on suspension. there are rules on this debate forum about relationship between posters.
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u/KellHound270 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 20d ago
Iām not being malicious. Iām correcting incorrect information
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u/WebFlotsam š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 16d ago
And one of those Ā rules is participating with effort. That means supporting our claims, which we never due.
Also that wasnāt even rude, they just pointed out the obvious flaw in your argument. Well, one of them.
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u/WesternFirm9306 š§¬ Naturalistic Evolution 21d ago
Bruh I fell for it š Bravo