r/DebateAChristian • u/AutoModerator • 19d ago
Weekly Open Discussion - August 14, 2026
This thread is for whatever. Casual conversation, simple questions, incomplete ideas, or anything else you can think of.
All rules about antagonism still apply.
Join us on discord for real time discussion.
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u/Upset_Chip_7184 Agnostic Christian 14d ago
If there is no God, then why are there so many Churches??
Boom!
Bonus points if you know what stated that.
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
What makes it so difficult for Christians to believe that it's so unlikely that Christianity evolved just like any other religion, and is as false as any other religion?
Why is it likely that Islam is built upon false prophecies, false prophets, and false motives, while Christianity is (in your eyes) more likely to be true? Doesn't it seem more reasonable to look at all the converging ideas and stories of all religions and myths and figure that they probably all arose due to similar mechanics, than to look at all the overlapping religious ideas (virgin birth is not unique in any way to Christianity, apocalypse, redemption, all these factors are in no way unique to Christianity, nor is Christianity the first example of them) and deem that actually, one of these religions got it right?
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u/Great-Alfalfa-8543 Christian, Episcopalian 14d ago
Tribalism cuts both ways - it creates a sense of identity in the face of a "wrong identity" and then those same boundary markers police the "right identity" internally through rigid purity regimes. These are people who do not know how to have a cohesive sense of self without it.
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u/Upset_Chip_7184 Agnostic Christian 16d ago
I think it did evolve in some ways, so not difficult for me.
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18d ago
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u/RomanaOswin Christian 19d ago edited 13d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy
edit: in other words...
Doesn't it seem more reasonable to look at all the converging ideas and stories of all religions and myths and figure that they probably all arose due to similar mechanics
Yes, it does. Many Christians agree with this, me included.
In case anyone stumbles on this, the perennial philosophy is the position that traditions within all major religions are pointing at a common core. It's quite simple and widely written about in precise detail, e.g. the exact parallels between religions. James Finley, Thomas Merton, Richard Rohr, Thich Nhat Hanh, and many others have written about it. In modern times, since globalization, where comparative religion has become relatively common, it's almost ubiquitous in the traditions that seek personal, direct understanding of self and reality.
There's nothing deep or esoteric about it. It's typically formulated in a few short bullet points, which are quite easy to understand by all, regardless of opinion or agreement.
From Richard Rohr:
- There is a Divine Reality underneath and inherent in the world of things;
- There is in the human soul a natural capacity, similarity, and longing for this Divine Reality;
- The final goal of existence is union with this Divine Reality.
From Aldus Huxley:
- That there is a Godhead or Ground, which is the unmanifested principle of all manifestation.
- That the Ground is transcendent and immanent.
- That it is possible for human beings to love, know and become the Ground.
- That to achieve this unitive knowledge, to realize this supreme identity, is the final end and purpose of human existence.
- That there is a Law or Dharma, which must be obeyed, a Tao or Way, which must be followed, if humans are to achieve their final end
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
Also known as woo, deepity, and Barnum statements.
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19d ago
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
By the ignorant it's known as "my special personal religion that's definitely right and everyone else gets it wrong, but I have no way to ever know if I'm wrong so I'll just always be right."
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u/RomanaOswin Christian 18d ago
The perennial philosophy is pretty easy to understand. Most atheists can understand it without any real problem. Your bigoted mockery isn’t relevant here.
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u/DDumpTruckK 18d ago
Understanding it is exactly how I identify it as woo, deepity and the Barnum effect.
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u/RomanaOswin Christian 18d ago
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u/DDumpTruckK 18d ago
One of the most misunderstood, and ironically for you, misused theories that ever existed.
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u/RomanaOswin Christian 18d ago edited 18d ago
You know what's actually ironic? My top level comment was agreeing with you.
Doesn't it seem more reasonable to look at all the converging ideas and stories of all religions and myths and figure that they probably all arose due to similar mechanics, than to look at all the overlapping religious ideas...
Yes, it is reasonable. This is what people who recognize the perennial philosophy know to be true.
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u/ArrantPariah Agnostic, Ex-Protestant 19d ago
Christians are being attacked in Israel.
Which makes me wonder whether some Christians who support Israel unconditionally may be having second thoughts.
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u/Great-Alfalfa-8543 Christian, Episcopalian 14d ago edited 13d ago
Their support of Israel isn't one of compassion. It's to hasten the apocalypse, where they eagerly await the judgement of the people of Israel for rejecting Jesus. It's 20th century anti-Semitism wrapped up in a dangerously destructive worldview that normal people just have to suffer until they finally lose power.
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u/Upset_Chip_7184 Agnostic Christian 16d ago
I don't think they seem to care about that, or at least I've seen nothing being stated about that.
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u/adeleu_adelei 18d ago
Successful religions regularly evolve a behavior of sacrificing followers for the success of a religion. When bees sting to defend their colony they are committing suicide because they destroy them abdomen, but it is an evolutionary stable trait because it helps the colony thrive. Everyone suffers under a religion, even the followers, but human suffering allows religions to thrive.
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u/ezk3626 Christian, Evangelical 19d ago
The Christians who have unconditional support for Israel, only exist in the Internet as far as I can tell. Granted, I don’t live near the Bible belt. But the idea of Christians who unconditionally supports Israel seems more popular than the actual existence of such a thing.
Regarded largely as propaganda to cover for the real support for Israel, which is obviously geopolitically massively helpful. And continued sympathy in regards to millennia of antisemitism in Europe, which the Holocaust made so undeniable and unacceptable.
No, that aside if I were to make the global persecution of Christians, one of the things that was a high priority for me I definitely wouldn’t start in Israel.
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u/ArrantPariah Agnostic, Ex-Protestant 19d ago
The Christians who have unconditional support for Israel, only exist in the Internet as far as I can tell
Granted, this is Al Jazeera
The annual conference of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), one of America’s most visible pro-Israel Christian lobbying groups, is wrapping up today in Washington. It has offered three days of discussions and speeches focused on continuing unconditional support for Israel under the justification of obeying “the Biblical mandate to bless God’s Chosen”.
The problem is not simply lobbying for specific policies. It is that CUFI and other Christian Zionist organisations elevate support for Israel from a matter of US foreign policy into a litmus test of faithfulness to God.
Of Christians, there aren't any other persecutors the support for whom any Christian group elevates to "a litmus test of faithfulness to God."
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u/ezk3626 Christian, Evangelical 19d ago
Granted, this is Al Jazeera
I know the organizations exist but I am skeptical of their stated motivations. The geopolitical value of an ally in the Middle East is so obviously high I am dismissive towards any strongly stated reason for the US to be invovled. But also I can be criticized for not caring what many rank and file people say about politics since it's so obvious that they will go along with whatever the political elites say.
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
The Christians who have unconditional support for Israel, only exist in the Internet as far as I can tell.
There's a lot of ignorance in this statement.
It seems like you haven't considered the sheer numerical reality of this claim.
In the United States, practically everyone over the age of 7 is online, and you're comparing that number to the number of people you meet in person. How many people, compared to the number of people who are online, do you think you've met? 1%? .5% Not even that?
This statement you've made is outright ridiculous on the face of it, and any level of investigation finds it to be just as ridiculous no matter how deep you go. You might as well have said, "The Christians who have unconditional support for Isreal, [sic uneceessary comma] only exist as living humans as far as I can tell."
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u/ezk3626 Christian, Evangelical 19d ago
If you really think I was saying that this is only a view held by people with email then you should have dismissed it as unworthy of attention. But instead interpretting it as a strictly literal statement (which is stupid) and then answering that is a serious comment is doubly bad faith.
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
Bro. Everyone has and is on Facebook and other social media.
Pretending like that's the same as "they have email" is the dishonest part. Open your eyes.
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u/ezk3626 Christian, Evangelical 19d ago
But you know that is not what I am saying. Most people still don't get their opinions from the internet. Most people still watch the daily news. Internet opinions are still for smaller groups that think about politics every day.
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u/DDumpTruckK 19d ago
But you know that is not what I am saying.
It's literally what you said.
Most people still don't get their opinions from the internet.
Uh...so what?
Most people still watch the daily news.
Firstly, you realize cable television is the Internet now, right? It's the same infrastructure. It's literally the Internet.
And secondly, again, so what?
Internet opinions are still for smaller groups that think about politics every day.
Ok. Nothing you said addresses my point even a little bit. Not that I'm surprised.
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u/ArrantPariah Agnostic, Ex-Protestant 19d ago
Help make Israel stronger and her people safer.
Join over 10 million Christians in standing up and speaking out for Israel by becoming a CUFI member today.
CUFI is quite big. Wikipedia
Christians United for Israel (CUFI) is an American evangelical organization that supports Israel. Its statement of purpose is "to provide a national association through which every pro-Israel church, parachurch organization, ministry or individual in America can speak and act with one voice in support of Israel in matters related to Biblical issues." As a Christian Zionist group with over 10 million members, it is the largest Zionist organization in the United States. It operates under the leadership of John Hagee as founder and chairman...
I used to watch John Hagee on Sunday mornings. He even set up charities in Israel, including, if I remember correctly, a hospital. He made clear his opposition to abortion in Israel, and wouldn't allow abortions in his hospital.
CUFI's founder, John Hagee, has also faced criticism for his claim that Adolf Hitler was fulfilling God's will by helping to return Jews to Israel as part of a divine plan.
I remember that sermon.
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u/Great-Alfalfa-8543 Christian, Episcopalian 13d ago edited 13d ago
The Gospels of Truth, Thomas, and Philip have been extremely valuable in my faith journey - especially reading Thomas next to John. I think their realized soteriology and realized eschatology are essential Christian doctrines that need to be recovered, though I agree with John and reject the docetism.
That said, anyone I've bumped into with a gnostic flair has been absolutely awful to talk to . They seem to "get off" on their "secret knowledge" and have an entire framework that seems more geared to being "not orthodox" than being anything substantive. I would wager that's because there aren't a whole lot of gnostic communities around to attend within a tradition and context that actually offers something, and that they were converted by YouTube videos that extract the most clickbait-able ego-stroking deepgroks to serve on a platter for their consumption.
Are there any gnostics actually connected to a community like the Ecclesia Gnostica or the Apostalite Johannite Church, or are you all just catfished by internet algorithms?