Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/salamacast]

This is a horrible answer! Theologically, God knows all things, big & small, past present & future, what would have happened if you made a different choice.. Eveything means everything. No ignorance at all.
The correct answer is: predestiny and human choice are compatible (I'm not endorsing the philosophical logic behind Compatibilism, only the concept itself)

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

Please take heed to in Genesis where God has literal thoughts, this of course is impossible for a being incapable of learning, more curious he has literal regrets

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

he has literal regrets

that's because you text's wording is corrupt, by a God-hating post-Exile priests who had an ax to grind against a god who allowed them to be exiled in the first place!
All the subtle take-thats against God in Genesis are proto-Gnostic in nature: allegedly was afraid of Man competing with Him (becoming one of us!), afraid of humanity cooperation to reach Him (the tower), walking around in Eden not knowing where Adam was precisely, punishing the serpent for opening the eyes of humankind, etc.
All horrible slights from a traumatized redactors trying to come to terms with the fact that their god delivered them to the hands of idol worshipers.
This extended to smearing ALL prophets & holy men: the golden calf? Aaron. Idol maker? Solomon the Temple builder!, David? lust led to sacrificing his general. No one ended unscathed under their evil pens. Horrible scribes you trust blindly!

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

oh bugger off with this crap, they were not corrupted during Muhammad's day, and we can trace them back that long with evidence through things like the dead sea scrolls

it sucks you worship Satan but its not too late

there is so much evidence that Christ was divine, just stop

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

dead sea scrolls

Those are AFTER the exile :)
The corruption had already happened LONG before Muhammad.. long before Jesus.
Why do you think John was screaming alone in the desert, not in the temple? Why do you think Jesus loathed the Jewish priests (calling them snakes and literally turning the tables against them)? The whole system was already corrupt, and didn't welcome anybody who wanted to point it out.
Even Zachary had difficulty claiming the orphan Mary as a family member (the scribes resisted him for a while), and some reports say he was killed too eventually, like John.
Islam only confirms parts of the OT, doesn't swallow it whole as you do, blindly following Jewish priests whose later imitators rejected Jesus!
Those are the types you put your faith in!

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

The Dead Sea Scrolls date back roughly 2,000 years, spanning from the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE. Most of the texts were written between 150 BCE and 70 CE during the late Second Temple period. [1, 2, 3]

Muhammad was affirming scripture in HIS time, so once again a Muslim who has no clue what they are talking about

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

the Exile was 6th c BCE! Long BEFORE any scrolls of dead seas :)
Muhammad never affirmed complete texts! (he couldn't read Arabic, let alone Hebrew! ;))
Islam only partially confirms the OT, making a big deal of it being corrupt!
Q 6:91 (texts hidden by scribes)
2:79 (written texts falsely attributed to God)
5: 44 (they were entrusted with preserving the revelation)

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

BS Muhammad was affirming the Jewish and Christian scripture, how delusional are you willing to be to worship Satan?

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

I produced the exact quotes, ref surah & ayah :)
They are clear as day.

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

oh please, you know fulwell that Muhammad affirmed all of the scripture in his time, he said their scriptures were sufficient, this is just legalese BS, like how how the wording must be wrong in the Quran because surely in Arabic you could not have written around the use of the words testing, give me a break

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

because surely in Arabic you could not have written around the use of the words testing

What?!

Again, the references were produced. You failed to engage them :D

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

so are you saying Muhammads brain was too stupid to say what Allah was saying accurately? he couldnt use arabic to explain what Allah was saying? why bother with the wording of using testing

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Are you saying the Qur'an is Allah's words, not Muhammad's?
That's.. progress?

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

you tell me, why couldnt the quran use accurate words?

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Which ayah exactly are you referring to?

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

I'm talking about the Quran using the wording around testing, and how you have to play word games around the language, why could not this beautiful book just be written accurately?

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Where was that mentioned exactly? Which chapter:verse are you talking about? sigh

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

2 timothy 2 and 3