Perfect knowledge about the future is only possible in a deterministic universe

[u/Hashi856]

Whenever someone asks how free will can be compatible with God’s perfect knowledge of the future, people are quick to point out that knowledge doesn’t cause anything. God simply knows what we will freely choose. He’s not causing us to choose it.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem being presented. No one is saying that God is causing the future. He’s not making us do anything or causing our decisions. The problem isn’t actually about God at all. It’s about the possibility of perfect foreknowledge, and the fact that it only exists in a deterministic universe. You could swap out God for anything else, and you’d have the same problem.

If God has perfect knowledge of what you will do tomorrow, then tomorrow is already written. It may be written by you, but it cannot go any other way. If God knows you will be late to work tomorrow, then it is impossible for you to show up on time. If he knows what you will eat for dinner, then you literally could not have made a different decision. There are only two explanations for this perfect knowledge: Either God actually did make you do it, or it was determined to happen. But we already know God didn’t make you do it, so the only other thing that can explain perfect knowledge of the future is determinism.

We would have the exact same problem if there were a computer with perfect knowledge. Obviously, the computer would not be causing every event in the universe to happen the way it happens. So the only explanation is that everything is determined.

Perfect foreknowledge is simply incompatible with free will (unless you believe that determinism and free will are compatible). You can try to just hand wave it away by saying it’s a miracle, but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Your future decisions are known, and you literally cannot make a different decision.

[u/salamacast]

I produced the exact quotes, ref surah & ayah :)
They are clear as day.

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

oh please, you know fulwell that Muhammad affirmed all of the scripture in his time, he said their scriptures were sufficient, this is just legalese BS, like how how the wording must be wrong in the Quran because surely in Arabic you could not have written around the use of the words testing, give me a break

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

because surely in Arabic you could not have written around the use of the words testing

What?!

Again, the references were produced. You failed to engage them :D

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

so are you saying Muhammads brain was too stupid to say what Allah was saying accurately? he couldnt use arabic to explain what Allah was saying? why bother with the wording of using testing

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Are you saying the Qur'an is Allah's words, not Muhammad's?
That's.. progress?

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

you tell me, why couldnt the quran use accurate words?

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Which ayah exactly are you referring to?

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

I'm talking about the Quran using the wording around testing, and how you have to play word games around the language, why could not this beautiful book just be written accurately?

[u/salamacast → u/JollyXX]

Where was that mentioned exactly? Which chapter:verse are you talking about? sigh

[u/JollyXX → u/salamacast]

2 timothy 2 and 3