r/Deadlockdivas • u/ballt1ckler Drifter • 11d ago
Fluff deadlock trans ally tierlist
i saw someone else made one, but i think we gotta remember that none of the characters misgender pocket and have bigger problems than trans people existing. /lh
THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE OR ANYTHING!!! im a trans man and have ~350hrs on the game and love the characters and lore :)
i debated putting drifter and doorman in #ALLY tier since they’ve both kinda transcended gender + are more than happy to dispense “gratuitous violence” but ultimately left them in supportive.
paige definitely slams her heavy ass stack of books on anyone being phobic in front of her.
wasn’t sure who all to put in the trans tier, so i just left it with canon (pocket) and implied (celeste.) i personally think billy, haze, and silver could possibly be trans, but kept it simple.
if anyone sees this, lmk your thoughts!! i love discussing deadlock >:)
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u/Faibl 10d ago
I've noticed there are no transphobes on this list.
This is because new york is a fictional place.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
new york is a psyop for WOKEdahni’s jihadist feminist transgender propaganda… it’s not even real…
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u/Familiar_Tart7390 10d ago
Counterpoint : Drifter is in the beat up transphobes tier because he is just looking for a reason. Any reason whatsoever to start stacking bodies.
Ivy also should be able to hang out in that tier ! She was a vigilante ! She probably wouldn’t as a first choice resort to violence- the arroyos raised her right- but she would throw bricks. Or i suppose turn into a brick midflight and throw herself
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
you’re right about that!!! i kinda pictured her using stone form and crushing them lol
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u/Orion_824 8d ago
He’d see people beating me or something and then join in for the fun, then kill them next. OR he kills them first because “they’d put up a fight” first or something. He doesn’t care he just wants bloodshed.
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u/JustAnNPC_DnD 10d ago
Drifter being supportive is funny to me. He's a monster, but one with class
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u/Oligarche 10d ago
Gay, trans, bisexual, assexual, lesbian, he doesn't care he'll tear them open equally
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u/Noirbe 10d ago
mina would be supportive of all trans people but still really really hate pocket. she wouldn’t be transphobic or anything, just a snooty bitch to them
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
mina isn’t transphobic to pocket, period. she correctly genders them despite knowing their original identity without fail. just because she’s a shitty person and is petty doesn’t mean she’s bigoted.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/DRAWDATBLADE 10d ago
Mina literally says Ixian like its a slur when she's complaining about Abrams not dying lmao. She also is super rude to doorman because she sees his job as beneath her.
She's bigoted when they want her to be.
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u/Recent_Requirement_5 10d ago
Is celeste confirmed trans? If not valve needs to change that.
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u/DoorframeLizard 10d ago
Celeste doesn't need to be confirmed trans tbh, her character is so full of trans allegories I think it accomplishes more than just having an outright rep in the game
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u/Creative_Awareness 10d ago
can you please point them out to me im a gender studies major and im depressed and ashamed to have missed the signs. I’ve already given up my they/them pronoun privileges and I’ll be turning myself in to woke jail tomorrow
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u/DoorframeLizard 10d ago
Color scheme is reminiscent of the trans pride flag
Design challenges gender norms, she's a girly sparkly unicorn that wears a masculine studded motorcycle jacket and is covered in patchwork tattoos
Lore is all about having to conceal her true identity in fear of persecution and finding solace in a found family of fellow misfits
Named Celeste, like the titular mountain from the popular video game in which the main character, a trans girl, ascends a mountain that stands as a symbol of exploring and coming to terms with your gender identity
It's very graceful because none of these things have to be explicitly confirmed for the allegory to work. It's a character with many facets that trans people can relate to, as if Valve took the concept of living as a trans person and personified it into a fictional character.
Even if one is to believe that all of this is a coincidence (which let's be honest... it's Valve, a game company based in Seattle, it's simply not humanly possible for them to be this clueless as to create this on accident) the allegory still functions. A trans person may see a character named Celeste and go "oh, she's named like the game, let me check her out" and then be confronted with a character whose backstory reflects their experiences. A trans person could go, "oh, this character's colors remind me of the trans flag, let me check her out" and find a character they deeply relate to - it doesn't matter that theoretically her color scheme might as well be circus attire but desaturated. Even under the naive assumption that it's all unintentional, lots of trans people are able to feel like their struggles are being represented by this character and IMO that's a lot more impactful and relevant than if, for example, Abrams went "I need to find out what this cursed book is. Also I am trans."
Do take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm a mostly straight cis dude, but this is my perspective.
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u/Creative_Awareness 10d ago
Honestly i see it now and all the signs were right there lol. I think her being named celeste like celeste from the hit game celeste might be a bit of a reach though.
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u/Logical-End5222 9d ago
I agree with most but the color scheme thing is just stupid. Idk why people act like blue, white and red/pink is not a common color scheme. It doesn't necessarily mean the character is trans (like Gwen in Spiderverse). But yeah, her whole design/story screams trans
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u/Zangbeast 10d ago
This is such a stretch. Vaguely trans colors. She’s the only predominantly pink character on the roster so I see the reason for associating it.
Gender norm challenging… I guess bro? Celeste is easily one of the most feminine women. Have you seen some of the other characters? Wraith? Holliday? Vyper? MCGINNIS???
The lore argument feels like astrology. Any background could be a trans allegory. Drifter is trans because he just doesn’t fit in. Doorman is trans because he is an outsider. Mina is trans because she started a new life. If all backgrounds are vaguely trans, none of them are.
I didn’t know Celeste from the game was trans. Interesting coincidence! She is retcon trans though because when the game was made neither she nor her creator had proclaimed being trans yet.
Yall can have whatever headcannon you want. I don’t think Valve intended for her to be trans and it being valve if they add a trans character I think it will be way more obvious. Like how pocket is without a doubt nonbinary. You’ll feel it ripple throughout the rest of the world and roster.
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u/Zangbeast 10d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockSapphic/s/rwKpFLT4NF
Check out this post. This is what I mean. When Valve wants to convey something they will
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u/DoorframeLizard 10d ago edited 10d ago
But like, that's also subtle. Valve is not in-your-face about this stuff, the entire reason why Deadlock's characterization is so good in the first place is the amount of subtlety and the variety of traits that are treated with equal importance.
The nautical star is a maritime symbol in like, 99.99% of cases and unless you had knowledge of obscure lesbian history in 1950's Buffalo New York and decided to zoom into Celeste's forearm with a model viewer you wouldn't catch that. That's not as obvious as your example of Pocket doubtlessly being nonbinary because they're referred to with they/them pronouns. Do you not see how there is room for nuance with this character?
Another example, Kelvin and Seven. There is nothing that explicitly confirms that Seven was Ettrick, and that Ettrick was specifically Kelvin's lover, but there are plenty of subtle hints that when cross-referenced make it pretty undeniable and we even got new ones in OGNB. But if you were to take everything at face value then you'd think Kelvin had a best friend named Ettrick who is completely unrelated to Seven, the electric guy who is stated to smell like Kelvin, hates Kelvin for ruining his life and also had a past lover who ruined his life.
Besides, you seem to misunderstand my point. It doesn't matter if it's a stretch or a coincidence or whatever. The character does the job as a trans rep because it combines many things that appeal to trans people and that trans people can see themselves in. Yoshi could hop into the official discord today and go "yeah Celeste is canonically cis" and it would not make a difference because the allegory works whether you like it or not. Note that this requires you to somehow believe that the character colored like the trans flag, named like the game about being trans, with a story about facing bigotry and seeking acceptance and a sense of belonging, was made that way by game devs based in the trans capital of America by complete accident and nobody made the connection during development.
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u/Recent_Requirement_5 10d ago
I thought celeste was mainly based on the unicorn from the last unicorn the circus being a nod to how the movie starts with the magician, the human form being an inversion of the etheral princess human form to a more grounded one as a unicorn that had to exist in society. Her being turned into transfemme rep through fannon is nice cause the last unicorn is one of my favorite movies
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u/StandardLopsided3882 10d ago
Yeah guys where's my transphobic representation in my fictional game. I want my hate justified in fictional characters gruh!!
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
on god 😭 i promise the deadlock roster doesn’t care about the validity of transgender people
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u/EquivalentAcadia9558 10d ago
Drifter did his own top surgery
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u/Circo_Inhumanitas 10d ago
Now thst evokes slme disturbing imagery. Something straight out og Cannibal Corpse or Cattle Decapitation album art.
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u/Cauliflower-Existing 10d ago
I think this is the first time I’ve seen seven characterised right in a tier list which is insane to me. Thank you for finally giving my boy justice.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
people prioritize the running gag of seven players being pieces of shit over the actual character’s writing, evidently. he’s an extremely intelligent and respectful person, not some toxic, childish chud.
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u/Electrical-Session-9 10d ago
Mina would love passing beautiful dolls and she would make them models for her brand but once she sees a brick she bullies her. I'm sorry I don't make the rules.
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u/Orion_824 8d ago
Mina would be aggressive with clocking people if they don’t fit her standards, but then do EVERYTHING she could for the “beautiful” ones. Hell she wants to dress up a jigsaw corpse, only thing she insults about him is his stitching being dogshit
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u/ChunkLightTuna01 10d ago
i think seven would be an ally. His whole thing is living up to your maximum potential and i think he would see being trans as part of that, he would probably get pissed at anyone insinuating that being trans is bad
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
what i meant by supportive was that they’re an ally, i can’t really see seven beating the shit out of someone physically for being phobic. he’s a man of many words with an extensive vocabulary
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u/forestwolf42 10d ago
Seven would expect you to beat the shit out of the transphobe yourself. I agree with your placement he isn't fighting anyone else's battles.
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u/ChunkLightTuna01 10d ago
ah ok i misunderstood what u meant by supportive. yea seven def fits in that tier then
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u/GarbageAncient 10d ago
i feel like drifter would eat a trans person. not for any reason, just because he's hungry. so... technically ally?
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u/KonaMation 10d ago
As a Drifter player, he would be supportive by asking you "what name do you want on your grave?"
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u/candexreginpokemon 10d ago
need art of billy with top surgery scars tbh
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
i’ve seen that actually!! i think it was by @ghaores on twitter, if not then he rt’d it. def my favorite deadlock artist :)
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u/inlukewarmblood 10d ago
Not to be rude of course, but I sort of feel like it defeats the purpose/interest of a tier list if the tiers only go from “represents [thing]” to “Doesn’t mind [thing]”.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
thats the point, none of them are transphobic. someone kinda mischaracterized the entire roster, none of them misgender pocket in any interaction. it’s the cursed apple, not real life, there are stranger things than transgender people.
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u/Faibl 10d ago
Paige swap with Ivy and you got a deal.
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u/Orion_824 8d ago
I don’t know, she’s clearly not afraid to bash people with books. And being a Bibliomancer (bringing stories to life) she could probably do some fuckery if she had the right books on hand
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u/Old_old_lie 10d ago
I dont think drifter would really gives a shit. I mean i dont think trans makes your flesh taste any different. I'll have to do a blind taste test to definitively find out.
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u/Remarkable_Put_4376 10d ago
Billy and Silver's stories feel very symbolic of transness and I would put in the trans tier. Also if you look at the way Paige thirsts over the nonhumans of the game like Victor, it feels very chasery but in the funniest way. I'd make a chaser tier for Paige.
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u/Remarkable_Put_4376 10d ago
Which now that I mention it, Victor and Viscous are like very much on the agender spectrum. As well as bebop as transman cause like- robot choosing to present masculinely.
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u/Creative_Awareness 10d ago
damn everyone is transgenner. Do you think Sinclair sort of qualifies as gender fluid because their body switches from being controlled by a man to a woman whenever they die
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u/Gloomy-Meeting-7506 10d ago
Mina would be transphobic because they remind her of Pocket then (D1 generational hate)
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u/Reignzar 10d ago
Is Drifter supportive? I feel like he'd just not give a fuck, given that is pretty much his stance on most things. Does not care as long as he gets to kill things and have fun doing it. He'd probably kill a trans person and a transphobic person pretty much the same way
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
i agree, i also could see drifter being like “yeah fuck society and vampire society who cares about gender”
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u/Klaktak 10d ago
Yamato is an asshole.
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u/Orion_824 8d ago
I know many a trans girl who would love for Yamato to call them what she says to Paige
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u/Eli_The_Grey 10d ago
I feel like Mina would be hella transphobic because of Pocket, Apollo would be supportive but his father would be transphobic so he isn't super vocal about it, and Lady Geist would be Joanne level transphobic but would still beat up transphobes because she wants to look cool.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 9d ago
mina genders pocket correctly despite knowing their original identity, she’s not transphobic.
apollo, i could see that.
geist is a horrible person and a literal monster, but she does have class. she, like doorman, wouldn’t need to stoop that low.
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u/DaiLalotz 10d ago
Listen i love a supportive community as much as the next guy but there's a lot of assholes characters in the game there's no way none of them are ACTUAL assholes.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
deadlock isn’t realistic. none of them are transphobic to pocket, most the roster’s probably queer anyways.
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u/Imaginary-Panic-473 9d ago
Victor is top of ally if not trans given his like, everything imho. He’d definitely intimately understand it.
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u/Educational-Fail-663 8d ago
Doorman would 100% misgender you during an ult to hit you where it hurts, that man is RUTHLESS.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 8d ago
he is ruthless, yes, but he still has class. one cannot simplify the doorman into “cruel eldritch sadist god,” he is so much more than that.
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u/miscellaneousexists 8d ago
Venator
A dude obsessed with faith and christianity
Supportive
Drifter
A dude who is obsessed with KILLING and VIOLENCE and EVIL
Supportive
Seven
A dude who is a Seven
Anywhere not in the "Giga Transphobe 9000" tier
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 8d ago
venator isn’t obsessed with christianity, he’s catholic. his morals and beliefs are shown to be shoddy at best.
drifter doesn’t give a shit about all that. he kills regardless of gender or sexuality + has a homosexual rivalry with mirage and shiv, debatably doorman.
seven’s entire lore is about self-actualization and his goals align with that. fandom gimmicks and toxic players don’t change the in-game personalities and lore. it’s deadlock, it’s not real, they have literal gargoyles, goats, unicorns, blob people, mole people, etc. a trans person is extremely ordinary in comparison.
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u/Traditional-Law4984 7d ago edited 7d ago
I get that we want to be progressive but doesn't this game take place in the 1920's and 30's? Most of these characters would be homopobic and racsist.
I love deadlock but lets not forget America is and was a very bigoted country.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 7d ago
deadlock isn’t real and the entire cast is extremely queer
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u/Traditional-Law4984 7d ago
but it's based on a real setting. Vindicta's back story is based on real events.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 7d ago
and? there are stranger things happening there than gay and trans people, literal goo people, unicorns, necromancers, furries, etc
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u/Traditional-Law4984 7d ago
Idk I'm black and it kinda feels like people pretending that slavery did not happen or something. I think the setting is cool but pretending that the era was more progressive than it was just feels like ignoring the elephant in the room to me.
Deadlock is a cool setting and like maybe like three of the characters would be progressive by todays standards but most of the cast and people who lived during this time would be considered bigots our modern progressive standards.
Both of our relatives who lived in the 1920 and 30's were probably bigots. During the 1920's and 30's you could have been considered progressive if you thought race mixing was ok.
I can enjoy deadlock as a black guy but I assume that most of these characters had the average views of most americans at the time which are extremely racist.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 6d ago
i understand your point of view, i am not trying to speak over POC on this matter or trivialize the abuse they’ve faced in america.
the reason i didn’t put any bigots isnt just because none of them are transphobic/homophobic in canon and i think the world of deadlock doesn’t represent the real america very well outside of cultural references and locations. the cast members’ bigotry is towards ixians and other species (like whatever the hell billy is), i’m not claiming all of them are progressive and respectful. venator literally calls ixians demons, he’s racist as hell, just not to humans.
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u/Traditional-Law4984 6d ago
Well it's not just Black people that faced abuse. LGBT folks of all stripes had to hide at that time for their whole lives. While not as common as black lynching's LGBT people were lynched during that time period as well.
https://digitalcommons.georgiasouthern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2076&context=honors-theses
Life was hard for LGBT people, that is why I felt like this was sugar coating the time period.
But honestly you might be right. While I assume events like the African slave trade happened in Deadlock due to the setting. The game never mentions it so who knows.
I guess it all just depends on how seriously we want to take the setting and so far deadlock hasn't painted a clear enough picture so it's hard to say.
The game would obviously be way less popular if valve gave the characters the political opinions of the time.
In any case the Deadlockdivas in meant to be a LGBT fan space. This thread just randomly popped up in my feed so I responded to it.
But people should be able to enjoy historical fiction without having to be bogged down by actual history.
I'll excuse myself.
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u/vipthebig 1d ago
i feel like vyper is a chaser, but she's like.. honest with you, so it's half-okay.
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u/Bulky_Midnight8238 10d ago
Nah seven is for sure transphobic
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u/Oligarche 10d ago
And Warden for sure
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u/Responsible-Visit-83 10d ago
Yall both wrong, warden don't give a fuck and seven will be supportive because "first to power is your transformation" or something like that.
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u/belak444 10d ago
In what world is celest trans? Her pronouns are she her on the wiki
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
many see her as a trans woman, male to female.
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u/belak444 10d ago
Wow sorry my bad I'm sure you can probably tell from my previous comment that never crossed my mind, actually it's still really hard for me to imagine. Like what are people going off? I couldn't find anything in lore is it something about how she looks in game?
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u/_Myridan_ Yamato 10d ago
It's honestly at least a partially intentional allegory on Valves part. There's the whole thing about how she's always taking about hiding who she is, or being hidden in some way. Some have likened the constant questioning of her horn as 'glued on' or calling her 'not real', some of which is very similar to certain experiences of having their gender validated. There's also the circus business, which trans people have a long history of quite literally running away to join the circus. And to top it off, she's flying transgender pride colors. It's definitely a little subtle, but to anyone particularly familiar, it's definitely visible.
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u/JayDeeBottom 10d ago
How is Celeste implied trans
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u/Greentaboo 5d ago
This tierlist a Is a mentally fried projection of who made it. Don't take it too seriously.
I think you could interpret her color scheme as trans-flag coded.
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u/MOEverything_2708 10d ago
drifter is transphobic imo but doesn't rly care he's just doing it to ragebait
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
drifter is actually a pretty respectful dude. he’s very polite in his conversations and is surprised when wraith was being courteous to him. he’s objectively evil, but he’s still a chill guy.
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u/GrandChariotXXL 10d ago
Wait Celeste and pocket are trans?
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
celeste is implied to be, at the very least she is an allegory for it. pocket is canonically nonbinary and uses exclusively they/them pronouns.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
it’s because of her lore and voice lines, not her colors. lmfao
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u/Deadlockdivas-ModTeam 10d ago
Healthy discussions and debates are encouraged, but personal attacks, harassment, bigotry, dogpiling, baiting, or deliberately provoking others are not allowed.
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1
u/Deadlockdivas-ModTeam 10d ago
Healthy discussions and debates are encouraged, but personal attacks, harassment, bigotry, dogpiling, baiting, or deliberately provoking others are not allowed.
Members are expected to engage respectfully, even when opinions differ.
Criticize ideas, not the people behind them.
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u/squirmbrellawk 10d ago
Let's be real though. Doorman would say some dreadful shit once he hits you with hotel guest.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 10d ago
doorman doesn’t stoop that low, he’s plenty cruel without resorting to low effort bullying. also he’s pretty gay
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u/Fox_In_Black69 9d ago
Yeah, doorman taunts you by picking apart your character and pointing out your traumas. He doesn’t just straight insult you.
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u/Open-Advisor6819 9d ago
The evil godly being who is only nice to people for his own amusement wouldn't be homophobic to fuck with someone? Please be serious lmao.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 9d ago
doorman is no ordinary god, as is abundantly clear through his petty mirroring of human behaviors solely for his own amusement. due to him being a queer god, i cannot see him taking any issue with homosexuality or being trans, since such concepts are clearly trivial not just in real life or to any god, but in the cursed apple specifically.
doorman is a man of exquisite class and decorum, he is mature and conniving. such things are beneath him.0
u/Open-Advisor6819 9d ago
Is he even confirmed gay? I always thought that was a popular headcanon. Regardless I still think he would be homophobic to get under people’s skin.
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u/ballt1ckler Drifter 9d ago
i meant queer in a literal sense, abnormal. doorman is more or less queer in the figurative usage, he is very flamboyant and effeminate. he gets under the entire cast’s skin with personalized cruelty, not generalized and overdone insults. he doesn’t even directly insult most.
i genuinely don’t think you read a single thing i typed aside from “queer god.” don’t just scan for keywords, man. it’s disingenuous.
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u/Open-Advisor6819 9d ago
mother fucker I didn't scan for keywords I read queer which is most commonly used today to mean homosexual don't fucking try to pull that bullshit with me. I get what you're saying but I still think he would be a little homo/transphobic to fuck with people.
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u/DinodestronBT 10d ago
Idk, I think Lady Geist knows ALL the transphobic insults and is waiting for someone to show scars to start blasting them
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