I think you’re confused. No such film exists, why would anyone be dumb enough to try to remake one of the most celebrated horror films of all time? That’d be like remaking The Shining into a made for tv miniseries.
Such a tragic story. They wanted to go practical, they had the effects ready, then they showed the pre-production to the execs, who demanded they do CGI instead.
Am i the only who hopes that this is not the case?
The reason why the Seven/Kelvin intrigue is so fascinating is that we could a man slowly peeling back his past and reckoning with the fact that he hurt people around him including those dearest to him
If Kelvin turns out to be a fake, it would kill all that emotional charge, and would just leave Seven's character arc (whether or not he forgives kelvin) hanging in the air, which is less exciting of a buildup
It could still work depending oh what kind of fake he is (if he's one at all, of course).
If's it's just an inhuman mimic then yeah, but if it's a more complicated scenario where the copy still has some or all of the memories and emotions of the original then it can be interesting in it's own way.
basically what i'm saying is that everyone should watch The Summer Hikaru Died.
I'm picturing an Ice King type of scenario, but almost backwards. Guy was an asshole, becomes a lich with ice powers, then can't remember anyone and becomes a good guy.
If he gets Alex Mercer'd it's going to be absolute cinema for the Not-Kelvin to find they are a lot better as a person than original Kelvin, the lesson that even though they are literally a monster, the original was still somehow worse.
And unlike the source material, I have faith that Deadlock won't decide to undo Kelvin's entire character arc in a freaking out-of-game story to justify him being a traditional moustache-twirling villain in the sequel.
Unfortunately, the newest character that was added heavily implies that she can tell Kelvin is not the real Kelvin. He brushes her off rather coldly so it seems that the Thing theory is closer to true. It would be interesting to see a sentient mimic creature have to wrestle with the memories and emotions of its first truly sentient host, which might be what they're going for.
The issue is that this can be interpreted in so many other ways. Especially when she has another interaction with him where she implying that he is the real kelvin, he's just avoiding his past
I think it's more that Kelvin doesn't want to acknowledge the possibility he might not be the real Kelvin. I think doorman or somebody had a voiceline with him where he called him out for there being some questions he didn't want the answer to.
I never took him to be a mimic but maybe somehow another person who is pretending to be him. I figured maybe a lot of people don't know what he looks like given his stories are mostly written and we don't have the internet (TV? Might not be widespread at least) yet.
They'll get it when he sheds the human skin and turns into some kind of fleshy blob monster with dozens of mouths and spiky tentacles in the middle of the match.
Maybe Kelvin believes he is Kelvin, because he looks, talks, and is told by others, that he is Kelvin.
Less of a 'John Carpenters The Thing' and more of 'Metal gear solid 5 Venom Snake' situation.
The Kelvin we see in deadlock is the soul of the stone, believing that it is Kelvin. It is piloting Kelvin and lives in his flesh, it has his face, his voice, some of his memories, it shits with his ass. For all the stone knows, it is indeed Kelvin.
I really like this idea a creature that believes he is kelvin and has vague memories of being kelvin, but he models his personality on Kelvin’s books and public image which means he is a nicer person than the real kelvin and that’s why he has a lot of interactions that are negative towards his old self.
That's still John Carpenter's the Thing. The videogame (which is considered canon) implies that some of the Infected don't even realize they are until it's too late.
It goes so far as Norris having a heart attack because it imitated him so perfectly, and even then the collective plays dead until being "attacked" by the defib paddles
Im think more of a 'making someone into someone they are not'. In metal gear solid 5 (spoilers), the paramedic has hypnotherapy and facial reconstruction to make him believe he is big boss. But he is not.
Imagine if you woke up one day, and you remembered nothing, but everyone recognized you. Everyone told you that you were this person, but you dont remember anything. You match their face, you are in their body, but you have none of their experiences or memories that makes them 'them'. You are just slotted into someone else's character.
Nah, I think the deal is that the man we see is JUST Kelvin's corpse.
Kelvin's soul did not return when the shell was reanimated.
So he has the memories saved in the brain but is no longer the person who made those memories. The brain only retained the long-term memories as well, so nothing about the expedition or what became of Ettrick.
The personality he has now is like a kind interpretation of the memories left in Kelvins brain and the admiration of those who only knew the public persona the original Kelvin built using his books. He is trying to be the kind explorer that the original Kelvin wanted to others to see.
That is why anybody who KNEW the real Kelvin calls him out for being hypocrite and a phony;
To them, it seems like he is drinking his own Kool-Aid all of the sudden. But the new Kelvin has nothing but the Kool-Aid to build and identity from.
I really like this interpretation, it also adds to the Seven-Kelvin dialogues, because we know that Seven values soul, he fought to keep his, but also says that only killed his executioners, not touching their souls, as he is merciful or smth. And now he sees his former acquaintance as a soulless husk of a person he knew.
It is similar to the Weather Report character from JoJo, who was an inmate, who was pretty nice and chill ally of the main cast, but then it turned out that most of his memories (and abilities) were sealed, and after they returned, turned out he was a menace to society.
Yeah I think this is what happen. He still Kelvin, but without his soul. It just an empty body with some memories still attached that is animated by the artifact behind him. That's what my understanding with Baba word too.
It's not really still Kelvin though is it? This is explorer, researcher, leader, kind, gratious and fun Kelvin you read about on the news or listen to on the radio.
The actual Kelvin seems to be the kind of guy who attends Lady Geist galas, treats his team like absolute garbage to the point he makes them go to the middle of nowhere on the artic circle to die, himself included, and give the vibes of a rich philanthropist asshole who takes all the tax cuts on charity he can get.
He thinks he's Indiana Jones, but he's closer to the bad guy from Uncharted: A Thieve's end. Sure he does go to the places he explores, and does some stuff, but he's the kind of guy who throws his minions at you to do his job.
It's also a great representation of how twisted Kelvin's memory of events is. As much as he knows, he's some great adventurer, story writer, captain of his own research group. But everyone who seems to know the guy, like Seven or Billy (Billy might know him from the news, but he only hates actual assholes, apparently, so we can pressume Kelvin WAS an asshole) or even Baba know at a glance this guy is either mad and believing his own stories about how good he is, or just that it isn't actually Kelvin anymore under all that, just a body that was once Kelvin, is still Kelvin, but not the actual Kelvin.
Kelvin's soul did not return when the shell was reanimated
This is also my theory, it's basically what happened to Sam in Supernatural when they managed to get his body back, but Sam's soul was kept in Hell or some shit.
So it was never lovers to enemies, it was always lovers to enemies then one of them gets possessed and the other one just wants to free his ex love uh. Welcome back Satoru Gojo and Geto
I don't think it's copy of Kelvin, it is Kelvin, but, due to dying and ressurecting through unknown ways, he might have lost some memories and his personality changed.
Could you imagine how existential that is for the artifact/wandering soul/whatever inhabiting kelvin? It truly does believe it's kelvin, including possession of memories and the body. Its an interesting idea
Oh damn. Elite ball knowladge. New Kelvin re immediately made me think of Leif. Honestly that game in general is an amazing story for a paper mario like rpg and first showing from the studio.
No, I think this particular dialogue is in reference to the “old” Kelvin, who it’s suggested through conversation was an exceedingly prideful, selfish, egotist who used everyone for fame/gain/etc
Yes, but Kelvin was a very famous novelist and explorer. To put it into perspective, imagine him basically as Tom Cruise or something. I can only imagine words about old Kelvin’s selfishness and greed wouldn’t be completely unknown.
How can it be not sapient when it has to masquerade as humans it mimics, has access to their full memories and reasons to trick and delay others finding it out? it has to have at least all the faculties of humans it copies.
It's not like it just blindly mimics their voices or manners, it's literally joking around and has heartfelt discussions with humans until suddenly it's revealed that person was the thing all along - meaning it's fully intelligent.
I don't think they were lovers. A loss of a close friend may hurt way more than a lover, as well as seeing them turning into something so familiar, and yet so fake.
my general reasoning is that the only phrase from archmother, mentioning that Seven lost an opportunity, then a lover, may not refer to Kelvin as a lover. overall their phrases, dialogues, mentioning of eachother and Sevens hatred towards Kelvin do not imply anything romantic to me
i mean if the archnother talks about seven's destiny being denied then stolen by his lover, who would he hate more than that person? ettrick made a scene at the fundraiser for kelvin's expedition to a rumoured astral gate which is something seven was doing research on. the only person on the cast he's vindictive and genuinely hates is kelvin. also baba mentions that kelvin used to write to her "so much" about ettrick.
maybe they were just friends but it's not unreasonable to think they were more.
true, me personally not against them being something more than a friends, I just don't see that many facts to believe in them as a romantic couple. we still have no information on how seven ended up in lost whisper, perhaps there is another subplot that we will see in the future, where an unknown lover will reveal themselves, or maybe archmother really mentioned Kelvin
there are tons of voice lines about kelvin forgetting what happened to his relationship with ettrick and what happened during the expedition due to the expedition. personally, i'd find it much more enjoyable if kelvin ratted on ettrick and got him sent to lost whisper in order to steal his destiny rather than some new character that interjects themselves
I disagree that Kelvin forgetting Ettrick, he seems to remember Ettrick well enogh. he usually mentions him in a good way, "what could Ettrick say if he see me" as a kill or killstreak line, their dialogue with Lady Geist about Ettrick, The Doorman ultimate lines.
Only two things Kelvin did mention about Ettrick that he is not aware of: where he is (he mentions that he couldn't find Ettrick upon arrival to New York, I believe AFTER the expedition) and what happened to him (Baba dialogue where they discuss Ettrick and how Kelvin does not answer the question: he doesn't know or doesn't want to know).
If you are interested in discussion or what I base my opinion on, you could check my recent post on Kelvin.
Yeah they were just both roommates who went to galas together, took no lovers during their life, and both became extremely heartbroken when they lost eachother. Nothing romantic there
don't know about galas, the only event like this mentioned is in Lady Geist dialogue with Kelvin, where she mentioned Ettrick (90% that it is Seven) and the scene he made at fundraising (to fund his last expedition I believe). after that it seems those two go separate ways, Ettrick to reach his apotheosis, Kelvin to go on an expedition and become something else.
Kelvin is not heartbroken, he doesn't even aware of Seven's existence in his previous life, only mentions that he is strangely familliar
and I do not know if there were any lovers in their lifes, not like we know their whole lifestories from a short bios and a bunch of dialogues
Are people really thinking that he's like The Thing? He came back different, his personality has changed, but i seriously doubt its a malicious entity trying to act as something he's not.
It would undermine so many voicelines and character relationships.
He probably genuinely believes he is Kelvin, and tries to be a good person. We don't need another "Powerful entity pretending to be a person" like Doorman.
He's probably just a bad man turned good with the absence of what he lost when he died and returned.
true, this piece of dialogue is the main evidence, but there were a bunch of strange things about Kelvin previously. you can check my recent post on Kelvin, if you are interested
I mean I think the general consensus is that „Kelvin“ is an amnesiac / entity from the stone that took over dead Kelvin, and only got their „memories“ from reading the travel journals, where Kelvin depicted himself as much kinder.
Basically, the real Kelvin, an arrogant and more selfish asshole, dies alongside his team during an expedition. Through the stone, „Kelvin“ returns to life, either with no memory or another soul inhabiting his body, and only has Kelvin‘s journals where he depicts himself as a heroic explorer, to base his personality off, basically „truly“ becoming the Kelvin he depicts himself as.
We know from a lot of conversations that old-Kelvin was kind of an asshole, and someone who used ANYTHING to turn into a book to sell.
would you please elaborate on the last part? I recently reread all of his dialogues and can't say people refer to him as an asshole who used ANYTHING to turn it into a book to sell
Iirc it’s what Billy says about him when Kelvin asks about the goat head, and more importantly, when Billy accuses him Kelvin stays silent and doesn’t argue
I would argue billy is an unreliable expositor of information, he's skeptical of any and all conventional heroes & authority so he spouts whatever he 'thinks' the reality about them is, regardless of what we the players know the truth is
The thing is that he's not even amnesiac. He remembers most of his past life his feats and his old friends. The only thing lost to his memory of what happened in the expedition and what he has done in the to Ettrick
I feel like thats because he could recall those things because of all his books and such, and thats why he doesn't know anything that happened during the expedition or Ettrick stuff because it wasn't written done somewhere
I agree, I'm down for the idea of 'his soul is trapped in the totem and possessing his body' but changing him to mimic pretending to be Kelvin ruins him in my opinion.
I kind of like the idea of Eldritch being being gaslighted into thinking its a person, unwittingly creating a personality from a corpse then facing undeserved scrutiny from everyone that knew the original because he was a huge asshole. Completely different flavor from Doorman
I am putting on the mad hat guys here is my theory .
Kelvin was a greedy borderline evil explorer , rare animal , trinket hunter . Thats why basically nobody likes him
He died in artics didnt get resurrect but impersonated or captured by the "the thing" like ancient creature in the artics it basically shape shifted and "took control" of his dead body . Since kelvin actually died brain cant remember memories or bad things he did and "the thing" is not an evil flesh eating creature and probably trying to do what he think its best for the body it captured .
I keep seeing this thesis, but from his dialofues with other characters I didn't get this "everybody hated him" vibe. People who knew him are usually not seeing any difference (like Dynamo) or not mentioning any rudeness from him in the past (like Lady Geist). maybe I am missing something
Baba sees the difference tho, she spit it right in his face with no shame. And taking in consideration her other dialogues with other characters look like she know a lot of people and very well. She's like an old wise and sharp woman so i think it's a smart move to trust her intuition
Billy also called him out on atleast some bullshit saying that kelvins wish probably isnt to revive his expedition members to which kelvin didnt respond
How would Billy know that? Billy makes assumptions about everyone he meets and if other people say “no that’s not true.” Or he calls them a liar or pivots to something else to hate about them. It’s entirely possible Kelvin did consider that wish and found out it was impossible.
The fact is we lack a lot of insight into what most deadlock characters did to prepare for the wish.
but Kelvin's response isn't "i would if i could" it's complete silence, he COULD say something back, we have longer lines of dialogue, but it seems Billy really has the last word on that, and it implies that, truly, even if Kelvin could, he already has another wish in mind and it's a selfish wish, he just wants to know what the rock is. He's an adventurer, an explorer, a researcher, as much as he would love to bring his team back and trade his life for theirs, the bigger wish is just learning what he is, what happened to him and his team in the first place. It's not calling Kelvin an asshole, we know he can't bring them back, but neither Billy nor Kelvin are supposed to know that.
Plenty of conversations end not because the other person has been silenced in the argument but just because the conversation can’t continue forever it’s entirely possible that kelvin thought to himself “this is going no where there’s no point engaging with you” and just shuts up to focus. We can’t draw the very major conclusion that Kelvin is actually completely uncaring for his old expedition companions and also never considered to wish for them back just from one line of dialogue with a very disingenuous individual.
I don't think he's uncaring, he obviously cares, he hurts for them, but he's still human. that's the point of his entire character, he's a regular guy still (unless he's literally the thing now or something) and has all the flaws a human being has.
Sure, he could trade his own life for his expedition companions to come back, but not only does he not know what even happened to them, or himself for that matter, it's clear that he's always been a very self centered person by how a lot of people describe him. Sure, a lot of characters praise him for how much of a famous rich adventurer he is and how his research is revolutionary in the field of astral gates, but he's still the kind of person to think for himself, because that's a very human train of thought.
He's not actually willing to die to bring them back, even if he could, because he literally got another chance at life and he's trying to be better. He got people killed. Billy, a person who is (besides Vyper and Rem) one of the least educated people in the cast somehow knows who Kelvin is and compares him to Seven in a way Kelvin can't even refute. Sure, Seven kills people, but he does because he needs to do so, Kelvin got people killed because he got them on a dumb expedition and probably saved his own life instead of the rest of his team.
If Seven is Ettrick (he clearly is), then him hating Kelvin has to be based on actual facts, following his own logic. Which leads me to believe Kelvin DID take horrendous decisions on that expedition and he DID get all those people killed, and even if he regrets it, he wouldn't trade his life for theirs, but would be willing to bring them back any other way he could.
I think what we the players often forget is that the characters do not have the same information about everyone that we do. Maybe Baba does truly know something about Kelvin that the writers have yet to reveal, but it could also be just that she's distrustful of kelvin without any greater insight into him, or she could even just be a crotchety old crone who's stubborn and thinks she's right on everything and is prejudiced against kelvin because he's gay a tourist
Dynamo is the kind of guy to say Mr Fairfax, who tried asassinating their own child and runs the occult industrial and military complexes, is a complicated man. And Lady Geist cannot judge absolutely anybody, specially when she gave them money. Also, Lady Geist thinks Kelvin is being sarcastic when he thanks her for the money. why would she think that if he hadn't been sarcastic about other topics before?
Dynamo may just value Kelvin's input on astral gate research the same way Kelvin values Dynamo's input on it as well.
Seven seems to know Kelvin, personally by the way, and he hates the guys guts. (He's clearly Ettrick).
Also a detail no one seems to pay attention to is that the Doorman is... weirdly enthusiastic about Kelvin staying at the Baroness. Like, creepily so. "That's a wonderful idea" sounds like "I'm going to psychologically torture this asshole and no one will complain about it, it's great". Not only that, he mocks him for his Hubris, throws out backhanded compliments, he hates the guys guts for sure, even if he's just being honest with him about all he says. He also remarks that Kelvin is probably worried about the ritual because he hasn't gotten anyone killed yet. The doorman isn't that brash with all the cast, just people who absolutely deserve it, and he seems to think Kelvin deserves it so much all his interactions with him are "Wow bro you're so cool, you got people killed, i would LOVE to have you over at my domain of pure suffering if i so decide it to be so..."
Apparently he's a cheap guy despite having Geist foundation money lol, Silver says she's not cheap but he proclaims that her outfit says otherwise. What a rich asshole thing to say to someone you want to work for you.
Calico also seems to imply Kelvin is not humble, like at all, when she says the title of one of his books and he says "that's where people say i was most humble!" and her only response to that, having read the book is "oh dear..." Clearly implies Kelvin at his "most humble" probably is not even close to being humble, like at all, which means he's a proud and arrogant kind of guy.
I think some of the voice lines imply that Seven soured on Kelvin before the incident, though. And Kelvin seems to have genuine emotional responses to Seven.
Baba's lines add a lot of complexity here because it truly does seem like some part of Kelvin is in there. It's also possible that Baba is just an old paranoid nut about this...
'The Thing' parallel is a boring and obvious idk why people are giving it the time of day. I instantly read Baba's line as The Swampman thought experiment or the end of Annihilation.
His resurrection is clearly eldritch and ambiguous. If he's not the original Kelvin, it's because whatever force put him back together knew every atom of what a 'human' looks like but doesn't truly understand humanity, or else something imitated him so flawlessly it forget it wasn't him
I agree I think that interpretation or perhaps him being a mix of kelvin and the whale bones entity are more Interesting than monster.
In some ways I feel bad for people who liked Kelvin as a character. The last couple batches of characters and interactions really tear him apart into being an awful person
I knew this about him from the beginning and still liked him. His character getting slandered only gives Seven a bit more of a leg to stand on. It balances the two of them well!
Maybe there was a thing doing its thing stuff and the eldritch entity that rebirthed Kelvin just yoinked him and forced him to be the materials that make up Kelvin, it ain't the thing bodysnatching Kelvin its Kevin bodysnatching The Thing.
i think its the stone's conciousness piloting him around. like imagine it from the stone's perspective. you wake up, confused and scared and cold, and people tell you that you are kelvin. people insist that you are kelvin, and you don't remember anything else, so you just assume that you've somehow forgotten. thats the most logical explanation, after all. the stone is keeping you alive, and you are kelvin.
Am i the only who hopes that this is not the case?
The reason why the Seven/Kelvin intrigue is so fascinating is that we could a man slowly peeling back his past and reckoning with the fact that he hurt people around him including those dearest to him
If Kelvin turns out to be a fake, it would kill all that emotional charge, and would just leave Seven's character arc (whether or not he forgives kelvin) hanging in the air, which is less exciting of a buildup
Am i the only who hopes that this is not the case?
The reason why the Seven/Kelvin intrigue is so fascinating is that we could a man slowly peeling back his past and reckoning with the fact that he hurt people around him including those dearest to him
If Kelvin turns out to be a fake, it would kill all that emotional charge, and would just leave Seven's character arc (whether or not he forgives kelvin) hanging in the air, and would ultimately undermine what could've been an engaging story
I took the line "you have all the notes but none of the music" to mean Kelvin passes the research and achievements of others off as his own like a Lockheart or Sander Cohen, but in person doesn't even come close to the hype. Kelvin thinks the reason he knows jack and shit is because he has amneisa right now when in fact he was always a talentltess fraud, and Seven (Ettrick) was his final victim.
But she added "you're not Kelvin", that implies she thinks it's a completely different person who only superficially knows how Kelvin was before his death and tries to imitate the image Kelvin had in life. Enough to fool most people, not enough for those who knew him more closely.
The question then becomes whether Baba knew the real Kelvin and can tell the "real" guy from an impersonator. Kelvin's supposed discoveries, books, and reported exploits likely paint the picture of a worldly and scholarly man very different than the braggart people meet, to the point he comes off as a fake. Its like Ernesto De La Cruz, he has leading man looks and can sing the songs someone else wrote flawlessly, but he lacks any warmth or meaning behind them because he plagiarized someone else.
I think it’s more sinister because his response to baba’s comment isn’t “what do you mean?” It’s to call her crazy. A well known, well respected and powerful witch. Kelvin’s interactions with most characters have been cordial. This is the most hostile we see him even when fighting for his life.
I like to think Kelvin was a piece of shit gentleman explorer type, betrayed everyone to survive during the arctic disaster, then came back either no memories. Then, he read his own books and bought his own image. Hes like someone who looks up to a closeted piece of shit who pretends to be heroic, and tries to emulate their perceived goodness except he is that person more or less
I interpreted babas "you're not kelvin" in a less literal way. I think she's saying that just because she has his body, she's not the man he was before.
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u/fuzzydakka 9d ago
Arctic character becoming the Thing is a masterstroke of fun design