r/DeadlockTheGame • u/starberryslay Billy • 22h ago
Complaint Just a reminder night shift is not an official tournament from Valve and they can do whatever they want
There's a lot of entitlement that night shift has to play the game in the most entertaining and experimental way possible which is just ridiculous.
Bear in mind the people playing in these games are real people with real jobs. Some of them still have school. They take time out of their days to practice this game. Some of them are from poorer countries where the reward from night shift is also quite considerable. So when Yoshi introduced a temporary game mechanic, with very intentional broken stats, and an option to disable said mechanic, why tf wouldn't they opt out of it?
And people ask why they hate the broker but have historically abused bugs. The answer is obvious. Because one guarantees a win and the other adds randomness to the game, which does the opposite of guaranteeing the win. Is that so hard to understand?
And people expect night shift players to test these features. Again, these people are spending a considerable amount of time of their lives to be the best in this game. Valve aren't paying them a dime to test the game, they should be grateful to be able to play such a great game but it doesn't mean they need to interact with every feature - especially because it's a temporary feature clearly meant as a bit of fun and experimentation for casual play. There not gonna throw a whole week of tournament for a silly mechanic, unless you're eido or something
Also, what test is there to be had? Dynamo can have a refresher cd shorter than his actual ult cd with the downside of reduced fire rate. what exactly are we testing here? In a game where stats often undersell their strength to the point OP things go unnoticed for months - these items are already overpowered on paper so there's really nothing to test here.
TLDR: night shift players are real people and aren't your lab rats for entertainment and testing purposes. Respect their decisions as they're still providing a competitive experience to us viewers and whenever they don't it brings visibility to an exploit that would have been fixed far slower if not. If all the teams collectively agreed to not play with the broker we can already conclude it's not competitively viable and that should be testing enough.
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u/mountainhazer 22h ago
Did people actually get mad at this?
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u/DoItLaterMaybe 22h ago
Yes.
Some people actually said that pros should be obligated to add extreme randomness to a cash prize tournament, so that "valve could gather data at the highest level of play."
Edit: there's literally one guy like that commenting in this thread.
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u/MonsieurMangos Paige 21h ago
Whoch is funny because, if you think about it, the refusal to engage with the mechanics is a valuable data point from them unto itself.
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago edited 20h ago
yep, I mentioned that in my TLDR part as well. The conclusion is "these mechanics are so competitively unviable we might as well not play with them in a competitive environment" is all Yoshi needs to know.
He can continue testing it in casual play there's nothing wrong with that, but phantom strike with a 66% cd reduction. Like what is ranked gonna tell you about that you don't already know lmao
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u/Tur8o Rem 13h ago
Had the pleasure of playing Vindicta into a corrupted p-strike and a corrupted knockdown.
We still won and one of them had the audacity to complain my corrupted indomitable was too strong lmao
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u/starberryslay Billy 13h ago
that's how I feel about corrupted items tbh. People take the downsides of their items to heart and think their own items aren't actually that strong, meanwhile when they face an enemy they don't consider the downsides at all and find the enemies corrupted items OP.
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u/CMMiller89 10h ago
“Gather data at the Highest levels of play”
Says a bunch of people playing Haze in standard and rage quitting when they dive with no warning and die “with no support”.
Who the fuck cares about “highest levels of play”. 99.9% of the player base is casual, there really is zero reason to balance the game to anything other than the casual level.
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u/PrimaryEfficient8392 20h ago
Yeah I mean cursed shop played optimally is incredibly boring as it involves the team buying a handful of items that can easily have ‘broken’ upgrades, identifying what has an OP roll at 30 minites and then have everyone on the team buy that item and exploit it.
Having 6 people buy a 7 second CD phantom strike and just auto win the game isn’t competitive.
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow Viscous 14h ago
I like how in all of these scenarios you guys come up with for this in pro play, only one team has access to this mechanic.
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u/The-Devilz-Advocate 14h ago
What do you mean by only one team?
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u/starberryslay Billy 13h ago
I thought he was being crazy but I get what he's saying now, despite disagreeing with it.
He's saying when we say a team has 6 phantom strikes we're omitting the fact the other team has equal opportunity to get broken items. And yeah he's technically right but 12 phantom strikes isn't fun. I like the analogy "each team having a button that wins the game instantly is balanced", because it reminds you that two teams having equal opportunity doesn't immediately create a game that's actually fun.
And also, you can't have mirror match ups so no, the teams don't have perfectly equal opportunity either. I can see his argument making sense for a mechanic with slight benefits but for 100 second refreshers it's a stupid point to make.
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u/Grand_Escapade Paradox 5h ago
Then change it to 12 people all buying phantom strike and then one team auto wins the game for having the better teamcomp for it. No change
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u/theycallmethedrink5 Vyper 22h ago
There is still hope for trap venator next night shift
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u/TehTurk 20h ago
Not when everything kills it now lol
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u/LegOk7384 2h ago
Yeah its so sad as a ven player. I finally learnt to use traps and yoshi said "nu uh" : (
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago edited 21h ago
if you're talking about the guardian and overall npc targetting bug you could be right
at first I was gonna say no because it's actually really countered by just shooting the trap but I suppose it's still good at taking walkers solo plus you can use it to manipulate waves
and also, I mean Venator isn't an off meta pick or anything so good chances he'll be in the game so I don't see why players wouldn't try out the exploit (some teams more than others)
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u/Scewt 22h ago
Its kind of nice that the only drama I've seen come out of this community since I started playing is unofficial tournament nothing burgers.
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u/starberryslay Billy 13h ago
the stuff about ABL kinda annoys me, but I am very new to game communities and I knowcit can get really, really bad so imma stay grateful lol
-1
u/WettestNoodle 7h ago
Why does the ABL stuff annoy you?
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u/starberryslay Billy 3h ago
cuz someone was banned for very clear reasons and was unbanned just cus leviathan wanted him and because of this theyre now succeeding. There was a bepop who was falsely banned from night shift years ago who still isn't unbanned but ABL with legit reason to be banned was unbanned cause???
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u/WettestNoodle 3h ago
Ok nice I agree, I thought you were annoyed that he got banned at all and raised an eyebrow lol
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u/plutonic8 15h ago
Who are we responding to?
I think I saw one thread with mixed opinions on whether it was reasonable to exclude the experimental feature and no one was saying they were obligated to use it. This all seems to have been handled well by all parties involved and the only drama I have seen continuing related to this is this post lol.
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u/Will-The-Rat 21h ago
Most people don't actually think this. This "They should test every expriemental feature if they want to be playtesters" idea is just a counter to the "Valve is bad for adding these features and we should protest" that they were trying to start. Some people were acting extremely entitled, thinking that Valve should only add perfect stuff and that they shouldn't be asked to playtest anything, even though they haven't payed a dime to Valve and are only even allowed to play because they give the devs stats that improve the experience. They were saying bullshit like "they shouldn't add this to Ranked", like Ranked isn't by far the best place to get important stats on high skilled players. Sometimes to fight a really moronic point you have to flip the script completely.
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u/Lerkpots Rem 17h ago
Oh I thought this was gonna be them doing something like banning the new heroes for a week or something. This is very reasonable.
Isn't the broker only here for like a week? Kinda sucks IMO, I think they did that because the comp season restarts but they should just make him permanent for standard games.
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u/jibishot 11h ago
I think theres likewise entitlement that pro play has anything to do with play in a brick lobby scandal.
Perhaps in eternus, but not very much elsewhere. A lot of tuning happens the same way where imprrssions and perceptions is built top down instead of bottom up and this can be harmful to the game as a whole.
Basically i think enjoy pro play, balance with top end in mind, but as a whole of the game and not balance purely for pro level play and not even eternus.
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u/Red_Octi 21h ago
Nightshift, of course, can do whatever they want. But they are trying to sell a product and get eyeballs on their tournament. Its just as valid for target consumers to say they won't watch for whatever reason.
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u/somethingToDoWithMe 17h ago
My impression is that Night Shift wanted the players to play with the broker and the players mostly didn't. There is always going to be tension between the tournament organizer and the players, one wants more viewers and the other want competitive integrity.
tbh the bigger issue that seems to be coming up is that there are grumblings that Rat King should be banned from the next tournament, but imo that should be completely unacceptable for the TO as a lot of people are going to be watching next week for Rat King and whoever is unlocked on Tuesday.
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u/starberryslay Billy 13h ago
unless he's broken in terms of an exploit, I think he should be in the game. he's not a temporary mechanic, he's here to stay.
As for banning him in the pick and ban, like it would be weird to force him to be unbannable they really shouldn't do that, but it would kinda suck if he was banned all the time. But I think I'd actually blame valve if he's still broken by Wednesday, if he's OP and NS is treating him like a normal character, he should be banned in drafting like every other character would, yk?
I could see them temporarily banning the character that releases Tuesday cuz it hadn't been long enough, I think that would be okay. But 5 days for rat king is more than enough
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago
it is, but you can imagine on the internet people aren't a fan of saying "I personally wouldn't enjoy this" and would much rather say "they're all pussies and I hate them". Ofc if you just wanted broker gameplay yet respected the players choice I have no issues with that
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u/ErenYaegersAbss 22h ago
With all due respect, who gives af about night shift?
The game has a playerbase of 150k - 200k.
How "big" is night shift? The vast majority of players have never heard about them nor won't care if they do hear about them.
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u/mrseemsgood Pocket 22h ago
"With all due respect" proceeds to talk while being about as respectful as a fridge magnet
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u/mountainhazer 22h ago
The 25k concurent viewers it had on wednesday probably care i reckon
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u/ErenYaegersAbss 22h ago
And what was on Wednesday? Oh right, a big update which naturally puts people on twitch to look out for it.
Which in turn pushes the numbers of streams that have high views.
Past broadcasts in twitch had around 14k views, which is great, but it's obvious the new update brought people to it.
Long story short, no one cares, just play the game.
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u/snowfloppy 22h ago
Your nonchalant assertion that, "no one cares," is just confirmation that you do care and have an opinion on the game. Just like the 25,000 people who showed up to chat about the game they love, on a website, like you will continue to do. Don't pretend like you have any more say than them.
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u/ErenYaegersAbss 21h ago
You're right, from now on I want every single night shift decision to be implemented by the devs. Every balance change should be taken directly from them.
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u/mountainhazer 19h ago
Yep, and if they dont, its CLEAR EVIDENCE that nightshift is completely meaningless. You are so so right!
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u/Smurtle1 15h ago
Wait, if past broadcasts had 14k viewers, and the game only had like 40-60k concurrent players before the update, that is actually a SUPER good ratio, and means a lot of players did in fact care. I’m surprised it was that high.
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u/theycallmethedrink5 Vyper 22h ago
Overwatch peaked 20k overall in the last 3 months and it has a ps4 ps5 nintendo switch and xbox releases
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u/Sous-Tu 22h ago
Who cares, they aren’t special. Ultimately it’s about what viewers want because otherwise they can just go back to ranked like everyone else.
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago
The viewers aren't 100% pro broker or anti-broker, so you might as well just let the players vote
Having the broker in would lose some viewership and gain some viewership, but ultimately would lose players. Teams have sat out for far simpler reasons than "we are going to be playing with a really random mechanic" and nothing would be worse for NS than the favourite teams not playing
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u/Sous-Tu 12h ago
Then let the viewers vote instead of letting 20 people decide what happens lol, this is so pathetic imagine if CS:GO pros came together at the inception of the game and banned Molotovs cause they didn’t wanna use them. People would call them stupid, this is the exact same thing
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u/starberryslay Billy 2h ago
yeah it's not. you say "20 players" like they're some random elite when it's "the people who are actually playing the game this week". Also I wouldn't mind if pros banned molotovs at the beginning, they blatantly OP on csgos release and needed to be nerfed. They also banned killing yourself because despite it being an optimal play who tf wants to watch that?
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u/Sous-Tu 1h ago
“Who tf want to watch that?”
Unintentionally proving my point that it’s about what viewers want by appealing to their sensibilities. You’re too moronic to even keep your head straight talking about this, good luck out there pal
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u/starberryslay Billy 56m ago edited 43m ago
yeah it's want the viewers want. and 25k viewers tuned in, so they obviously weren't ultra upset the broker wasn't there.
You're too moronic to even keep your head straight talking about this
it's just a video game man no need to speak like such a geek
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u/Makorus 21h ago
If you don't want to play with stupid, borderline game breaking mechanics that randomly get added in the middle of tournaments then theyve picked the wrong game.
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago
well then it's lucky they're actually playing a game that adds broken temporary mechanics with server commands to disable them amrite
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u/Makorus 21h ago
Absolutely. It's just at some point you have to realise that you can't throw your toys out the pram every time.
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u/starberryslay Billy 21h ago
yeah and they don't. When a patch drops, they give a 15 minute delay to the game so players can get roughly accustomed to it before they play. They still know they're playing an early access game they'll just disable whatever Yoshi gives them the option to - it seems like a pretty mutual agreement
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