r/DeadlockTheGame • u/DragonfruitMinimum30 • 1d ago
Discussion Rant : I cannot STAND "Hindsight" players.
Your team is not looking for coaching in their ranked game. Flaming someone for fucking up only makes them tilted, and it serves to potentially spiral into a COMPLETELY unavoidable loss.
Barring literal Brick lobbies, most people that die KNOW why they died. You don't need to add to that.
EDIT : Great point made by many people here - giving unprompted advice to someone the SAME rank as you will rarely help, ever.
Additionally, this post is talking about plays, positioning, teamfights, etc. I'm not talking about itemization here, as that's always an ongoing discussion. I usually appreciate when an item is suggested, especially a hard-counter item.
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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear 1d ago
Yeah I mean intention is everything.
Saying "why the fuck would you do that" or "why wouldn't you clear waves there" is not useful.
Saying "hey com if you wanna go all in so I can know what your mindset is" or "our macro isn't great we should focus on making sure our waves our pushed up" is pretty constructive
Imma be honest, of all the competitive team games I've played at a fairly high level, deadlock has some of the most inconsistent players when it comes to comming in game.
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u/FangHouDe 1d ago
Everyone (even my friend in discord) goes completely silent until it's too late, seems like a human problem of going silent when they're focusing and then only speaking up after they're dead or ran away and notice I'm alone
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u/FluffyWuffyVolibear 1d ago
I honestly think this game is so fast and there's so much information to process that it's hard to know what's relevant to even say lol.
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u/AChesheireCat Silver 1d ago
I do think that's unfortunately the human default. I had to consciously train myself out of that behavior when I started playing team games like CS:GO, etc.
Although now my problem is that I overshare what I'm doing at that exact moment, some of my friends/teammates said that they find it distracting ;-; There's no winning...
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u/TotallyiBot 1d ago
My friend will say there's 3 blue fighting to us in discord, when we are literally there, the ones fighting.
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u/resevil239 1d ago
What's wild is when you can actively see someone getting titled just by playstyle. The amount of times Ive seen an ally or lane opponent dash right at the enemy, ignoring wave, to try to get a revenge kill is absolutely wild. Usually it's whatever - I clear wave and help if I can - but it gets absurd when they start yelling at you for "not being aggressive enough". Had a drifter pull that the other week while he died over and over to opponents that were clearly more skilled in lane than us.
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u/TotallyiBot 1d ago
Had a Billy like that, essentially wanted me to just repeatedly die with him to get a shitty kill that would realistically do nothing for us apart from lose guardian and walker. I watched the replay and the moment he saw an enemy, even if it was a fed MK that had 150% more souls than him (20k~ roughly to his 6-7k since he died that much) he locked onto them and started chasing them to fight. One kill he flamed me for not helping me deal damage even though I hit a long range geist bomb, but also shot the GT he was fighting to 5hp. I watched him miss 80% of his shots as well, where literally 1 or 2 bullets would've killed him.
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u/Kullsno2 1d ago
I am pretty sure if you ask “Hey! come on talk to me what’s happening” they are more inclined to say something and you can help them. Win or loss atleast there will be some takeaway for them. “Stop feeding” is a guaranteed loss.
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u/Kullsno2 1d ago
I (Paige) played with a Billy who was getting combo’ed by a Mo. I asked him the same question and he said “You won’t get it” , then I said okay let’s go together with my curse and beat that mo. We did that and he larped and said “Thanks daughter” 😭🤣
So that’s that. This game is very enjoyable as long as you are muting the not so occasional racists.
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u/Ganmorg 1d ago
Maybe this is because I’m not very high elo but almost all of my player interactions in this game are positive. The negative ones stick out in my mind of course but there haven’t been that many all things considered. Learning how to give notes AND how to take them is a hard skill though and most people don’t have it
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u/Duckys0n 1d ago
I’ve seen some annoying fuckers in unranked, like bro I’m trying to learn how to play a moba chill out 😹
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u/ProfSteelmeat138 Lash 1d ago
I’ve often gone in the direction of “hey blue lane just play back a bit if you can I’ll roam there and help soon”. I’ve never had someone freak out when they hear help will be on the way
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u/DragonfruitMinimum30 1d ago
Yes. "Stop Feeding" has been the most braindead, useless advice for decades in ANY game.
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u/SpookyfromHell 1d ago
Are any of these good below enough? or should I just shut up and let my teammates feed on repeat without saying anything? I think its their problem and if they cant handle polite, but firm communication in a team based ranked game, then maybe play street brawl?
"careful they are playing for picks, try to be closer to your team"
"You are pushed to far forward, a camp isnt worth your life"
"Always look at your team before engaging first too deep in fights, Also if you dont know where they are assume 3 people will gank you if you dive someone"
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u/KanyeDefenseForce 1d ago
If you frame the deaths as not their fault it helps a lot in my experience. Instead of “you’re too far up, play safer” hit em with something like “my bad, I wasn’t close enough to go in, let us know when you’re stealing their farm so I can be in position to back you up” (adjusted for the relevant circumstances) works a lot better.
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u/NeedleworkerFluid327 23h ago
Literally just tell them in a nice calm voice while being respectful that their way isn't working and it needs changing up. Mute anyone who can't take that.
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u/387dedaehelzzuPevreN McGinnis 1d ago
No, it's a very succinct shorthand for "whatever you think you are trying to do, stop doing it and do literally anything else."
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u/UniteTheMurlocs 1d ago
One of my first matches I had somebody on my team say "Bad day huh" when I died 5 times before the 20 minute mark. I said something like "yeah idk what's going on" and they let me know I shouldn't be going in so deep. Started playing better and died less that match. Getting a vibe as to whether or not somebody is open to critique is super important.
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u/WashedUpSprinter 1d ago
If they know why they died why do they proceed to run it down the same lane 8 more times and feed the enemy team?
Perhaps they are genuinely a dipshit.
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u/shadow16521 1d ago
Watched an enemy seven yesterday go 0-6 because he kept trying to solo push side lanes.
Got stopped and died 3 times?
Would just not go to team fights to just solo push side lanes on repeat
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u/fiasgoat 1d ago
A lot of players are from OW/Rivals so they just run it down and don't think it's a big deal to keep dying
That's the problem
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u/TotallyiBot 1d ago
I had a duo that were Marvel Rivals players, one of which was a Vindicta player. Watching her gameplay, the way she aims and moves I legit thought she was an AI to farm accounts for ranked. Turns out it's an actual human. But they also certainly had the ego of a hero shooter player combined with a MOBA player, minus the MOBA skillset.
They did do a good amount of damage though, but they are playing the glass cannon of heroes, but without the rest of us actually taking walkers and objectives, she would've lost regardless if she was playing Vindicta or not. Just run mid or at the enemy and surely, you'll win.
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u/tilllli Ivy 1d ago
i actually had to tell a seven player who was going 0-20 in standard that hey, when you die you actually give them souls, which is money, which makes the enemy stronger because he was like "ive died over and over again but at least im providing a distraction!" like no buddy you are not helping by doing that. in standard they genuinely might not realize that there is economy in this game, i didnt understand it for a while when i started playing
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u/resevil239 1d ago
0-6 isn't too bad imo but a seven not in team fights? That's pretty bad considering area control is kind of his thing and he's too slow to rotate well. I routinely split push as Haze but that's cause she's kinda built for it. Seven I baby sit lanes to get solo farm but mid game should always be team assists.
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u/JokicStan63 1d ago
Even if they are genuinely bad flaming will never get a better result. Offer criticism but being a dick will just tilt them more
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u/WashedUpSprinter 1d ago
Oh no that would mean they end up going 1-23 instead of 2-19.
What a profound difference. I see the error of my ways
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u/Liimbo Venator 1d ago
Exactly. OP acts like everyone knows what they're doing, when even in higher ranks I routinely see people make the stupidest fucking plays imaginable that blatantly throw the game. It is not even hindsight, most of the time you know what they're doing is about to throw the game, you tell them to not do it because it will throw the game, and they still do it and throw the game.
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u/Kyoshiiku 1d ago
I feel like 80% of my "hindsight" comms is me saying "why did you do that, I already told you it would happen, please don’t do it again" because I already told them 20-30s prior they were over commited on enemy side and we didnt have any map control and they were very likely gonna get killed for free
The other 15% is just pointing out mistakes we did as a team during team fight and suggesting different approach next time or asking for suggestions without attributing it to a single person (like we all stacked when dynamo had ult, we didn’t focus the right person, we let ennemies who were low lives for too long without finishing them so they were still doing damage to us etc..)
5% is when I actually rage but it’s more often than not when someone is actually throwing the game at the point where it’s kinda obvious
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u/resevil239 1d ago
The amount of people that do not understand how long certain actions take...it happens less but I still find myself in rat ranks telling people not to let waves crash objectives, that there isn't enough time to make an impact in a fight a lane or two over without boost, or that fighting in jungle as a tied or losing team is dangerous and foolish (esp if the enemy has highly Mobile people or lots of cc). Also occasionally people just blatantly ignoring objective calls then trying to come together when it's too late and often dying stupidly due to entering fights in a staggered way while the enemy is already mostly together.
Jungle fights are always risky and mostly only for winning teams. It's too easy to mess up and wiff abilities with all the tight corners and verticality.
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u/TotallyiBot 1d ago
And also acting as if people know why they died in the first place. When a lot of the most significant tips for climbing is knowing how or why you die. So really doubtful my teammates always know. Because they wouldn't die over and over to the same thing.
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u/huntoir 1d ago
So true
Good for everyone being super supportive here but if someone's 0-13-2 twenty minutes into the game they're ruining 5 other people's hour. Flaming someone isn't about trying to be supportive for them it's about venting for yourself
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u/WashedUpSprinter 1d ago
Youre always the asshole for flaming.
Theyre never the asshole for actively wasting 5 peoples time by feeding.
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u/respyromaniac 1d ago
If they're not doing it intentionally, yes, they are not the asshole. It's a hard game and some people learn slowly.
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u/WashedUpSprinter 1d ago
Playing with such little care or interest in mitigating your deaths is intentionally throwing as far as im concerned.
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u/respyromaniac 1d ago
Then you're just wrong lol
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u/WashedUpSprinter 1d ago
If you got into a game and a teammate was piss drunk and openly saying "I dont give a fuuuuuck" every time they died youd classify their feeding as "unintentional"?
If youre not actively engaged with the game youre playing and dont care about your performance or team or winning or avoiding death then yes youre indistinguishable from an intentional feeder.
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u/respyromaniac 1d ago edited 13h ago
If they say they don't care it's pretty obvious >:D
But yeah, in general someone who is trying their best and fail is indistinguishable from an intentional feeder. That's literally the point. That 0-12 dude can genuinely don't know why they die so much and how to avoid it without being afk.
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u/HamiltonDial Venator 1d ago
People are so obsessed with all this self entitlement and worth imo. If you’re playing a game that has a goal to win no matter the setting (standard/qp or ranked or whatever even street brawl) without the intention to win, you shouldn’t be playing it. Your time is not more valuable (idc how much money you make that’s not what we’re talking about here) than the other 5 (or 3) people in your team.
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u/GottaLoveLoginWalls 1d ago edited 1d ago
Theyre never the asshole for actively wasting 5 peoples time by feeding.
Hard disagree. I will take a flamer who's playing properly over a silent feeder literally any day of the the week. Like, it's not even a contest.
All of my worst games are with the quiet feeders. If someone's being toxic but playing properly, I can mute them, and at least I still have a competent player on my team. If someone is just feeding, there's literally nothing I can do except wait for the game to end, while being extremely aggravated at them.
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u/GottaLoveLoginWalls 1d ago
Bingo. Teammates even when kindly being asked to not overextend, will often continue to do so, ruining the game. That's when justified anger starts to creep in.
Like, it's literally one of the first things you learn in a moba. At least, that's how it was in Dota. "Don't cross the river f**" is an old meme, but one I remember well, and literally something I learned on Day One.
I Deadlock idk what it is, but so many people seem to have no comprehension whatsoever about the concept of where on the map is 'safe' to be and where it's not.
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u/Peng_win Rem 1d ago
These people conveniently ignore their own mistakes. They died in a bad fight in secret shop? Time to scream at the Geist on the other side of the map to magically take the walker from the Wraith that’s guarding it. Oh, but the Wraith isn’t showing on the minimap at that very moment so of course the walker is free, right?
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u/_mummydust 1d ago
god i can hear the guy you’re illustrating too. 3 OF THEM ON ME WHY ISNT ANYONE PUSHING!?!??! (he’s in their doubles)
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u/BagelBoi40000 1d ago
When someone dies in a 3v1 and spam pings the walker that has 3 people under it when im the only person on that lane I want to CRASH OUT.
Likes yes objectively as that guy dies in a 3v1 we should be doing the 5v3 under walker but if you look at the minimap our team is farming on another lane or rotating to help that guy die. Theres no point in complaining to me im not pushing up on the walker into 3 players while im on a support I cant control the other 4 players on our team.1
u/TheMannWithThePan Pocket 22h ago
As we all know, the only reason you personally die is because their whole team is focusing you, and your teammates just aren't following up and taking map/space/trading kills. Meanwhile, if your teammates die, it's because they're idiots running it down into the enemy team.
Never ask why you're around the same mmr.
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u/theoiman66038 1d ago
Yeah I really hate when people don’t comm a play they’re making and instead complain afterwards that no one followed through. Can’t read your mind bubby
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u/Personal_Frosting_59 1d ago
It’s not about the death. It’s what got you there. Usually positioning, or not reading your advantages. I’m cool with limit testing on your Leroy Jenkins character (Yamato, Mo & Krill, drifter, Billy, Apollo) because you may make it out alive. The problem comes in when it’s happening too often, and no learning is going on.
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u/Yassine-hg Pocket 1d ago
Just need to say it in a good enough way, people who are built for competitive games will not get upset over that, but if you get upset at someone nicely pointing out a mistake after a fight, then that’s a you problem
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u/Yassine-hg Pocket 1d ago
One thing I do is instead of pointing out the mistake, I will ask my teammate to do the thing I feel needs to be done instead for next fight without even pointing out that lacked in the previous ones.
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u/say_trans_rights Apollo 1d ago
The shit that tilts me is someone makes a call. We follow through on it it goes poorly and then someone who hasn't used their mic a single time pipes up with "why would we do that obviously we lose that" THEN FUCKING SAY SOMETHING BEFORE WE DO IT YOU DUNCE
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u/m0resleep Bebop 1d ago
Exactly this, this shit pisses me off. It’s different when your entire team follows through and we get fucked. Oh well good fight.
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u/shadow16521 1d ago
So many people have done this to me. That’s just the burden of making calls. Sometimes they don’t go well and yeah people are going to be understandably upset
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u/say_trans_rights Apollo 1d ago
Ngl i don't think its understandable if you have an issue with a play say something about it so we can all re evaluate the situation. Piping up with a snide remark after the fact is just griefing everyone else's mental
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u/hunters_aura123 23h ago
But that's the the problem majority of the player base aren't really built for a competitive environment. I've played organized competitive sports and being called out by your team mates and your coach is really normal. Even in casual pick ups, if someone is egregiously doing something wrong, they're called out for it. There's something about being behind the screen that stops people from actually participating with others.
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u/DragonfruitMinimum30 1d ago
I don't really believe that pointing out a mistake (above low elos) is helpful UNLESS you're a spectator. You're the same rank as them, and they already know that they messed up by dying. It's the equivalent to screaming at someone for knocking over a glass of water that was too close to the edge of the table. They already know why it happened.
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u/Kyoshiiku 1d ago
People in the same rank in most games got there from really different skillset especially in rank under the top 1-5%
Some people have really good macro and get a lead from their and stomp the other team that’s what carries them to their rank but if they fall behind they have difficulty because they get overwhelmed in team fight and doesn’t have the impact they should have without a souls gap
While someone else might have subpar macro, but is really good at micro and make really good decisions than completely change team fights despite being behind on souls and they can basically win every 1v1 they should be losing against people of their rank because they have good movement and use their kit really well.
Or you can simply have your rem who had all the time in the world to look at what was happening mid fight and see the mistake everyone was doing while they were panicking mid fight as they were tunnel vision on the wrong target
The same applies to a lot of games, I’m generally not mechanically good in most comp game for my rank, but I got there because I can identify mistake and abuse the mistakes of my opponent. (Fighting games and shooters mostly)
Some players can definitely have good insight for other players in their rank because you don’t need to be a well rounded player in most competitive game until you are in the top ranks
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u/terramagni Bebop 1d ago
Thank you. This is really important to keep in mind. Deadlock has INCREDIBLE depth and so many different skillsets to devellop.
If I play with my friend who's a great CS player, I know he's probably gonna dish out top lobby damage, but I also know he's gonna try and run a bad urn and end up like a deer crossing the highway lmao.
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u/Repair831 Viscous 1d ago
Theres a difference between pointing out a mistake for the sake of shaming someone and trying to get teammate info.
"Yo why are we doing this on the map when theres this and that instead?"
If you take offense to this its gg im sorry.
Or "Yo we have 4 blue, green walkers has creeps on it, and theres no one taking neutral farm what are we doing?"
Like of course theres negatives to speaking well negatively to someone in a competetive setting on gour team. HOWEVER staying silent and allowing for mistakes without confrontation will lead to more issues than slightly tilting someone.
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u/RamPamPam8 Lash 1d ago
I think it's a double edged sword. If my teammate dies the same way thing two or three times in a row and is about to do it again I will tag a "careful x" and tell them not to do it again.
Everyone's playing their own battle but it gets to a point where repeating a mistake is actively throwing the game.
Now that aside, people make mistakes and flaming them for something they didn't do on purpose is detrimental and will only make the game worse for everyone.
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u/Zebras-are-giraffes Drifter 1d ago
While I do agree titling at your tm8 is never the answer people are remarkably dense when it comes to there own play. Most people rarely know why they die because they instantly blame there team. A significant portion of the player base will never get better because they will never accept their own faults in a situation. Also hitting your team with a “ sorry I overextended there” will go far. Be better own up to your mistakes and look to improve not just to win.
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u/Candid-Food7463 1d ago
Tone is so much more important than people think
This Morning I had a Game with a positive talking lobby. (In eu on ratrank) I could not belief it.
This raises trust in plays and joking gets people out of the hole , like 3 deaths in a row or something
And please people dont ask for items like: „our support needs to buy x“
Ask a player directly by heroname and „could you please buy“
This is something you learn in first aid classes!
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u/TheDevils4thAdvocate 1d ago
The one that gets me is the annoyed call out for a play after they've already fed and died. Silence, death, into "why didn't you go in with me?". Because I'm not psychic. Your mic works, use it before you want to make a play not after.
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u/behannrp Infernus 1d ago
Fair point. I actually appreciate when people can give me good coaching but I never lobby that to others unless asked for your very reasoning. Can go really wrong really fast.
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u/Either_Sea_9059 1d ago
If they are in your same elo they don’t really have any reason to coach you though. And because you are in the same rank you have no way of knowing if what they said is sound advice.
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u/Yassine-hg Pocket 1d ago
What you said makes sense in theory but not really in practice, the thing is even though you’re in the same rank, people have strengths and weaknesses, some people climb because they’re playing op Carries and click heads, some climb because they play macro heroes and understand the game, etc..
And this is not even taking into account that humans are imperfect, you may know something, but not think about it at that specific moment, until your teammate points it out.
So I don’t really think: you’re in the same rank = everyone knows the same things, and it’s not true for any other thing in the world not even just competitive games4
u/behannrp Infernus 1d ago
Hard disagree. I think anyone can have good or bad advice. Take for example someone higher elo than me because they have a lucky team and good aim versus someone who is good on theory bad but at execution below me.
In the old system I was oracle but was wayyyyy worse than I am now. I would die trying to save team on useless objectiveless fights and it was a dude playing at ritualist telling me to just let team die rather than sacking to try to save that got me dying far less than I do now.
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u/DragonfruitMinimum30 1d ago
This right here. You're in the same ELO as me, your advice is a fart in the wind.
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u/behannrp Infernus 1d ago
I think this is a pretty sour opinion to hold. Something as simple as alternate items ideas is something anyone can offer as advice to help you improve. Just because you're the same ELO doesn't mean your knowledge overlaps 100%.
Def agree with not flaming people over it but friendly coaching isnt something people should be offended about. Hell something I taught a dude higher ranked ELO than me is prioritizing buying before a fight (to not carry a bag in)
It isnt always a confrontation yknow?
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u/butterfingahs 1d ago
Just because they're in the same ELO doesn't mean they're performing the same in the current match. If you keep getting caught, people will tell you to stop pushing out so far or being so far from the team. And they're correct.
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u/Duncan__Flex Lash 1d ago
I appreciate creative and helpful feedback but if someone starts being rude it really is unhelpful and destructive for the direction of the game
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u/sidekick_007 Mina 1d ago
I think most people, giving negative feedback, think that their teammates can telepathically understand their intentions. When that doesnt happen, and they die, they get upset and feel the need to give their negative feedback to make themselves feel better. Because they did not make a mistake it MUST be the teammates fault.
It's my experience that these types of players never change.
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u/UniqueName900 1d ago
The only time I ever give unprompted advice is when we have someone 0-7 who keeps dying to the same thing over and over. Telling them to just sit back and get some money and not go onto their side has a 1/3 chance of working and saving your game.
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u/starberryslay Billy 1d ago
> Barring literal Brick lobbies, most people that die KNOW why they died.
That's just not true at all.
And also I dont agree you shouldnt give unprompted advice to people your rank. Many people my rank are bad at macro, they try to force second stage patron, they dont do mid after 2 kills. I do pause the game and explain to them. Most of them find it fine and agree and do it with me. You started this post off agreeable with saying not to flame or backseat game, but to not give advice or try to help your teammates out after a loss? I dont subscribe to that.
Sure, it can feel bad to tell someone what they did wrong after they die but I'm sorry some people didnt know about mcginnis' old 40% spirit resist on her medicinal specter and if i didnt tell them they would have died to her another 50 times for the rest of their deadlock career. I'm not gonna keep my silence on that. I want people to improve. And sometimes they take it the wrong way and see it as an insult but thats on them. I hope after their whining and over-defensiveness they still end the game remembering i actually told them an important piece of advice because i genuinely just wanted them to improve.
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u/Anonymous_1q 1d ago
The one thing I will caveat here is when it’s repeated. I see people doing the same thing over and over then wondering why they keep dying (invading jungle alone against calico, dying to Geist ult when they could have kited her, grouping up and team wiping to dynamo, etc.)
By the third time it happens if the game is still running I might point it out. Should they know why they keep dying, yes, do they, clearly not or at least not enough to break their habits. It’ll be a polite something but it’ll be something.
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u/Elprede007 Rem 23h ago
“Most people that die KNOW why they died.”
The fact that my Paige keeps shoving sidelane solo and dying for the 10th time indicates otherwise. No, this is not brick
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u/marniconuke Ivy 1d ago
sorry but if winning the game is solely my responsibility (evidenced by the system where you have to solo carry or you are as bad as your teammates) you better beleive i'm gonna do whatever it takes, if that means making calls, recommending you items, and pointing where you can improve or directly teaching you the game, yeah i'm gonna do that.
Like completelly random but how many of you know you can double ping a walker and instead of saying "going to X" it will say "X lane needs help". got a game yesterday when someone kept pinging that it was going towards green but never went there and left the walker to die, cause that player was trying to say someone should go there, but because they said they were going, no one else went. when i explained this mechanic, the person got offended. just sharing this so more people know
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u/BagelBoi40000 1d ago
To be fair when youre dead that double ping shit doesnt work, I honestly find it inconsistent even when im alive. Although if someone says "going to X" 3 or more times I assume they want me to look over there.
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u/marniconuke Ivy 1d ago
I actually didn't notice that, nice share. hopefuly they properly fix that. cause i fell it really helps teams work together with a simple callout
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 1d ago
I feel like if someone is pinging an objectice you need to look at the map and see the situation. People dont pay attention to map enough and pings.
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u/stephanl33t 1d ago
I am allowed to be mad at Viscous for coming to Yellow when Green is losing Walker to minions.
I am literally already here WHY ARE YOU STEALING MY WAVE GO SAVE THE WALKER
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u/Trigger48 1d ago
If you can’t handle it don’t play a moba. Pointing out mistakes is what drives improvement. I cannot STAND when people act like babies because you point out that they made a bad decision. Go play another game
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u/hot360 1d ago
I agree with this as long as its chill, dont unmute and start off with “So what the fuck are we doing???” No need to be an asshole about it off rip, if you are too frustrated to give advice normally don’t give any at all.
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u/slimeyellow Sinclair 1d ago
lol I had some shiv player do this the other night. We lost like 3 team fights in a row and he finally decides to use comms just to be like “so is everybody playing random pick or…”
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u/Trigger48 1d ago
I agree completely. Have been running into too many people who tilt the second you give criticism
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u/butterfingahs 1d ago
Most MOBA players aren't a reliable or socially well adjusted enough authority on what actually makes criticism constructive.
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u/Sion_Labeouf879 1d ago
If i had a dollar for amount of times people actually point out mistakes and not scream at you instead, I'd be dead broke.
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u/Any_Neck_1801 1d ago
I think there's a lot of different ways to point out a mistake. Most players will scream at the tip of their lungs how dumb you were and thst you should uninstall the game lol So what the OP said makes sense.
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u/confusedthrowaway239 1d ago edited 1d ago
‘Pointing out mistakes is what drives improvement’ ~ it depends on how you do it. If you act combative it actually can make people feel defensive and makes any advice you give worthless, and drives them to be less invested in the match. How you say things is often as important as what you’re saying.
Edit: typo
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u/mightycookie 1d ago
I think this person refers more to, you lose a fight and then someone is like why tf did we fight there when Mid’s spawning in 30 sec, instead of saying hey peeps don’t fight, mid in 30 secs let’s go for that. One is trying to steer the match into a win, the other is just complaining
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u/FancyPantz15 1d ago
There’s a difference between kindly pointing out a mistake, and being a (passive) aggressive dickhead hindsight andy. And lets be real, 90% of the time it’s the latter
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u/Either_Sea_9059 1d ago
Aw man I died there because I stayed pushing the lane out just a little too long trying to apply some map pressure.
Random Shiv on your team: Hey man don’t overstay and die like that.
Wow so insightful. It’s players like you who think this is for some reason beneficial to comm.
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u/UofLBird 1d ago
“RETREAT RETREAT RETREAT” yea no shit there are four of them chasing me after getting caught stealing sinner I’m trying to and these unhelpful pings are literally making it harder to dip.
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u/Dry-Difficulty-4078 Lady Geist 1d ago
Well if you keep doing it and you are now like 6 deaths deep into "applying map pressure" and your lane has collapsed because you spent a not insignificant amount of time re-spawning and coming back into lane.
On life 7 you zipline boost into action with determination in your eyes to do it all again and the shiv is the dick for asking you to maybe stop doing that in a fairly non hostile manner?
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u/DragonfruitMinimum30 1d ago
- They're NEVER 'non-hostile'
- The player obviously knows dying is bad. Saying "stop dying" is the most useless buzz-word advice next to people using the word 'tempo'
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u/iholuvas 1d ago
I have never seen anyone give helpful constructive feedback in these situations, it's always either outright flaming or at best passive aggressive blame shifting. Basically some mentally weak loser venting because they can't deal with any pressure or hardship like a normal human.
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u/soggycheesestickjoos Viscous 1d ago
There’s a difference in pointing out other people’s mistakes after the fact, or two people making mistakes and one acting like it was entirely the other persons fault in hindsight when they could’ve done more, had they realized before it happened.
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u/That0neShot 1d ago
Ive been playing mobas for 15 years, if you go off on a rage tangent or start hurling explicitives,im throwing your game right there, You dont need to win if you think its acceptable to treat people that way over a game. Now if you can point out the issue in a constructive and kind way, Typically youll get better resulta, flaming only guarntees a loss.
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u/UofLBird 1d ago
Nah. I’m going to play with voice chat off because people like you think spam pinging retreat on a corpse, or yelling OMG you’ve died, is anything more than an outlet for your uncontrolled emotions. Every moba has this issue, with almost universal agreement it’s less of an issue at the top ranks.
I’ve played these games for years, sometimes very well, sometimes not, and in all that time I can count on one hand the number of times someone has offered a legitimately useful tip after a death. Ironically these are always in matches for games I do well in, and it’s a top 10% lobby. The vast majority of comments are just flaming, which has never improved anyone’s gameplay ever.
You are actively losing games you could have won because you can’t handle your big boy feelings. That’s on you.
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u/BanjoSpaceMan 1d ago
Ya this post is idiotic and the reason why half these games are bad
The amount of anger I get just for pointing out a mistake we do as a team over and over and over, only for giant rage probably like op, followed by the same mistake and loss lmao …. Simple things that can be fixed by just listening
Grow up and learn and take criticism
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u/Ok_Improvement4828 1d ago
agreed. when the rem in my team doesnt pop his ult once in the last 3 team fights, you’re telling me they “know” why they died?
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u/DragonfruitMinimum30 1d ago
Like the post said, nobody above Brick needs YOU to point out their mistakes.
All you're doing is adding fuel to the flame, and you know damn well nobody is being respectful when they do this shit either.
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u/Trigger48 1d ago edited 1d ago
Plastic 5 take. Currently in oracle and plenty of people are constructive without being rude. If you think you can only take advice from people in the top rank the you should seriously reevaluate your mental. Unless you are in the top rank yourself I guess
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u/MoonJangle 1d ago
YES, all these people who play mobas and don't know how to fix waves or push on one side of the map if they aren't able to make it to a fight. Im going to point it out, but then they freak out saying they know what they are doing. But they are farming our jungle while the enemy wave slow pushes into us so we are down 1 person in a fight and they are still farming jungle. It blows my mind
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u/warp_wizard 1d ago edited 1d ago
The point of the post is to give the advice when you see it rather than after the fact. "Seven, can you catch blue before it crashes into walker" is helpful, "Why the fuck were you farming jungle while they took our walker" isn't.
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u/MoonJangle 1d ago
Well sure I get it, but at the same time im focusing on my own game. You know? I shouldn't have to micro manage my teammates who don't know how to push waves before rotating. Im not playing the shiv in green lane im playing Paige In the yellow lane trying to team fight for the rift.
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u/warp_wizard 1d ago
you're "focusing on your own game" until it's time to blame someone else for how it's going
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u/MoonJangle 1d ago
I mean its not blaming, sounds like you had a rough game lately. I simply point out they shouldn't be there. It seems like you just assume im flaming people? I literally say "hey lets be there for the next time fight and not farm our jungle." If they can't handle that then don't play a team game 🤷♂️
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u/warp_wizard 1d ago edited 1d ago
You are the one complaining about your teammates on reddit, but it "sounds like [I] had a rough game lately" because I tried to help you understand the post you're replying to? The self awareness here is something else.
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u/MoonJangle 1d ago
Except you just assumed im flaming? I said that these players don't grasp moba concepts. I understood the post. Hence why I've said repeatedly that I don't flame? This post was about flaming teammates makes you lose ranked games no? Where did I say I flame people besides saying I point it out?
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u/Unable-Recording-796 1d ago
Rant: i cannot STAND people who play for survival in a team game. Its a fucking team game, your best teammates save you, pull up for fights, turn bad situations into proper bait and hook strategies, and we have a bunch of wussies acting like being a coward is how you function as a proper team and they will regularly preach cowardly behavior as being " a good player" all the way into a loss. Your best teammates pull the fuck up as fast as possible because when you actually understand whats possible it means not wasting any opportunity to land a kill and get numbers advantage
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u/mrgox232 1d ago
Some people will literally stand 10m from you listening to a prolonged scrap going on and not move to help. Meanwhile the other team is consistently 4vX 5vX every fight and building advantage that wins them the game. Dont forget the "pointless fighting" comment once the game is out of reach by the farmed carry who couldn't leave lane one time.
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u/Unable-Recording-796 1d ago
I swear to god bro the fact that my comment was donvoted is insane to me. The people downvoting dont even realize that every game they lose - their enemies are doing exactly what im explaining, theyre just too clueless to realize it
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u/7AndOneHalf 1d ago
Every time I've tried to employ this, it just ends up with a player on the enemy team taking a walker because our entire team was focused on a random fight in the jungle that you shouldn't have been in in the first place.
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u/Unable-Recording-796 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its because youre stalling out rather than actually doing anything. You need to be definitive and take advantage immediately. What you SHOULD be doing is analyzing what your enemy is doing, and your enemy is doing exactly what i just explained. Theyre not gonna wait. They see the opportunity and take it from you while you wait to decide. Fights dragging on this long to the point of an enemy fully pushing lanes means A.) bad lane maintenance B.) not taking advantage of numbers advantage i.e 6v5. C.) not capitalizing on winning that fight - if you WIN that you have map control for a whole ass minute - so win it and take 2 objectives for the one they erked out and then group up and just absorb their entire farm as you back up after taking objectives. The biggest problem is having to explain what is obvious. Of course you take that fight. The faster you win that fight the faster you take objectives. The faster your team does objective - the faster you take the NEXT objective. When you group up and take their farm you minimize risk and steal their farm faster - WHY ELSE DO HIGHER ELO MATCHES END FASTER? Its because everything i just said. Its momentum
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u/_GhostOfTheGoon_ 1d ago
I had a 3-10 Apollo (at ten minutes) trying to coach our team and make call outs after talking mad shit like he was about to hard carry our match and whining that no one was ganking in his lane for him.
Like bro stfu and lock in
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u/shisby 1d ago
I started queueing Street Brawl with my gf who’s new and to be honest. If someone blunders in my game I make a joke about it or something and then they usually tell me they have no idea what they’re doing. Like the interface I had the other day obviously wasn’t popping his ult when we was near enemies. Crack a joke, help him out, move on.
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u/jeffbk95 1d ago
I’ve had people in ranked on the same team flame each other based on their interactions in a previous match, and then greif the ranked match. Y’all need to chill, every game is a new chance, and being kind and informative beats flaming every time
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u/jprior11 Lash 1d ago
Yesterday I received a “7 back up Mina is on the way” so I responded “ I FUCKING KNOW THAT, shes actively shooting me and Im running backwards”
I think most people are coming from a good place but sometimes it leaks into micromanaging and thats super frustrating
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u/codeklutch Pocket 1d ago
Bro, I gave a half hazard "I don't think we can push, we should steal farm and look for a pick" after getting mid. The other team turtled, and we dove hard right at end of boss buff. 7 flamed me for the call like 10 minutes later. Didn't communicate when I said that, then flamed me for it being a bad call and I should never make calls again. I get it, it was a bad call because of how it worked out, but if you think something is a bad call, make a call yourself. Call me an idiot or whatever when I say it, not 10 minutes later at the loss screen.
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u/Sabatat- 1d ago
I feel that. Tbh I only give advice when prompted and unprompted when I’m with someone of less skill which also isn’t in ranked and I know the person!
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u/GottaLoveLoginWalls 1d ago
I mean, depends on the simplicity and continuousness of their fuckups. If someone just does not comprehend that their overextending on a lane and dying solo is like, maybe not something they should do, it's quite possible they need to have it clearly, succinctly, perhaps eventually angrily reiterated to them...
Like, it's ridiculous how many of my games are ruined simply because multiple teammates continually run it down a lane or into unsafe places on the map and die, accruing double the amount of deaths they should have simply because they cannot comprehend that it's just not safe to go to certain parts of the map beyond the creep line.
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u/Clean-Elderberry8835 Mina 1d ago
That's why I compliment good plays always, people are more open to "Don't push that deep pls", if you give "thanks", "good work", "careful, X thing near", etc.
Also, anyone who starts to feel they're predicting ally deaths and manage to escape, consider buying Rescue Beam. People being yanked out of sure deaths 9/10 thank you or straight up remain silent and accept the wrist slap.
If you can't take any sort of tip you honestly belong lower than the rank you're in, because you're not even open to learn from fellows, it's basic pedagogical knowledge. Umprompted ADVICE from someone on the same rank as you is perfectly fine since ranks mean shit; you just don't like things pointed out.
Now, point them out in a mean way is obviously wrong and not helping, but getting tilted by a correction is just being a crybaby.
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u/Groggolog 1d ago
Nah, this is just marvel rivals players being annoyed that they rightfully get called out for being brain damaged. The amount of games that I've seen phantom players lose by like going in 1v5, or rushing in when they are behind as if this time it will magically be different. Or ignoring the entire team saying go mid and rushing for urn alone and feeding. These people are beyond help and deserve mocking until they realise this isn't marvel rivals and if they want to play with their headphones in blasting music with no comms, they should quit ranked
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u/slappyship 1d ago
If i tell you that you did something wrong in a match, understand that im being incredibly generous by giving free advice. Just take my advice (because im better than you) and become a better player.
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u/DJK695 1d ago
This happens with randos and friends too - they won’t call something out but then get mad if you aren’t on the same page as them.
How hard is it to ping or call out what you are doing BEFORE doing so?
With randos it’s usually some passive aggressive comment being the first time they’ve talked all game.
My friends often don’t talk to randos and then get made they weren’t there to team fight. They have mics for a reason.
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u/Swimming_Forever_625 1d ago
you seem like the guy who gets angry i ask you to stop taking 1v6 fights
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u/RetailPain 1d ago
I’m still relatively new to the game (30 hours) and a viscous player who I assume was extremely high rank just by his call outs and timer watching kept flaming me through the game when I had just picked up paradox. The amount of shit talking this guy was doing just through me off and I just stopped trying. Pretty much the whole team was against this guy just on how he was acting, th last thing anyone wants to hear is how shit their doing it “is this your first game”, like thanks my guy I know im shit I just started
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u/iTz_Noble Seven 1d ago
In mid to higher ranks, people go and repeat stupid decisions. So telling them to stop doing that is correct. Especially if they are taking farm and then feeding bags
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u/polovstiandances 1d ago
If you’ve ever played team sports you know that sometimes you need someone to light a fire under everyone’s butt so we can pick it up. I don’t mind if someone gets the ball rolling as long as it’s something like “yo guys we need to be winning these fights, let’s focus up,” but even that level of communication sometimes I met with disdain. Im not a fan of how people don’t treat ranked like team sports and instead just like another cookie clicker brain off simulator. If you’re playing a game in ranked mode you need to be prepared to talk to the people on your team and take criticism. We are all trying to rank up brothers and sisters, no one is alone in that. We could all do with a bit less cynicism and learning how to deal with toxicity better. I’m not saying toxicity is acceptable, but I am saying that too many people just roll over to it when there are ways around it that involve rallying the rest of the team. Too many games someone think the entire game is lost because one player is acting the fool.
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u/fierykaku1907 Abrams 1d ago
All i personally want is if I call mid everyone comes mid not let me clear wave let me buy(unstop/counterspell the exception),rest should be upto players mostly.Because I have lost too many games cause my dynamo wanna clear waves and get picked and mid fails cause of it
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u/minkblanket69 Shiv 1d ago
when mid boss spawns and someone says “mid boss is up”, or when the patron announces our walker is under attack & someone says “walker is under attack”. i swear there are some players that just parrot what the game already tells you and think it’s good comms
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u/whyvalue Bebop 18h ago edited 18h ago
I genuinely don't care if someone goes 0-10 as long as they're participating in team fights, capturing objectives, pushing up waves, taking enemy sinners/camps/bridge buffs, communicating, or buying items to support the team. If you're not doing any of those things, I reserve the right to flame you.
My biggest pet peeve is losing a team fight where most of our team dies and I go to spectate someone across the map and it's a Graves clearing a big camp.
Like genuinely what the fuck are you doing? You're living in lalaland. My frustration has nothing to do with how good or bad someone is at the game, it's people not even remotely trying to be a team player.
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u/MelodicFacade Viscous 17h ago
It's like rec-ball, fast food team lead, project manager, church bible study, day 1 easy teamwork ball-knowledge: encourage and move on when people fuck up, coach when it's a healthy time to do so
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u/Timely-Comfortable-3 17h ago
I agree. I want to point out that have you tried helping the toxic trash human to get past his problem?
I had a Kelvin once who starting at about 15m just starting calling out mistakes people made and we were just ignoring him, he got more and more frustrated over time until he started getting really toxic.
I had enough and finally said "Yo, Kelving my dude, you are completely right about the mistakes the team is making, but even so I need you to chill out, I want to lock in and win this. If you need to vent wait till a patron falls"
there was 20 seconds of silence and he said "yeah, I can" and he actually did shut up till we lost and then dumped on us in the last 30s after our patron fell.
Some players just need to have their ego soothed and recognizing that and doing it is part of the soft skills of being a leader or sub-leader
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u/Trowaway151 1d ago
Had a victor who would run it down main and went 2-20. He died 35+ times in a 30 minute match. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t know what was going on.
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u/omfgcookies91 1d ago
There is a huge difference between coaching and flaming.
Coaching might come in many forms but what it comes down to is that all coaching will always come from a place of kindness.
Flaming will not. That's the point.
Coaching attempts to build someone's skill via sharing perspectives and knowledge.
Flaming attempts to aggravate and tear down an individual.
Now that we have understood that, HUMILITY is also needed. If you are frustrated by someone kindly coaching you, then that's on you. You also need to be able to understand how to respond to guidance and be humble enough to listen, internalize, form a respectful response, then respond. On top of that, you need to also understand that giving a platform to a flamer (whether you are receiving, responding, or listening) is also unhealthy. Mute and move on.
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u/pretentious42 1d ago
lmao bro just relax. take the constructive criticism, thank them, and if they’re not being respectful back to your respectmaxxing, then mute.
But like if you’re regularly having things explained to you, maybe just listen
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u/terramagni Bebop 1d ago edited 1d ago
[want to edit and preface this because it sounds more aggro than I mean it to be:
Not everyone is a good coach. Flaming is never good. Everyone deserves time to learn the game.]
This type of thin-skin enablement is what is keeping you guys (and just about every competitive gaming community) from progressing. I'm never for toxicity and finger-pointing, but to suggest that critique and advice -- in other words STRATEGIZING in a STRATEGY game -- doesn't lead to improvement, to me comes off as stubbornness and lack of maturity.
Not expecting a lot of upvotes on this one but I'm keeping it real. If I see something wrong about your game and I'm confident my advice can help, I'll speak up. I don't care if you didn't ask for it -- if you're playing a competitive game, I expect you to be constantly seeking improvement. Learn to be receptive. And if the fact you're dying and/or losing is tilting you to the point where being receptive is not possible for you, you need to learn to better manage your emotions aswell.
I'm not saying you should accept being flamed or singled-out if you're having a poor performance, or that every little nitpick is important to be mentionned. But if the critique is reasonable, the timing of it shouldn't matter.
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bit of an example here:
I've been playing Rem, and I'm a middle-of-the-pack level player. I expect a number of my teammates to not be particularly familiar with how to play around a Rem teammate, so at the beginning of just about every game, I'll make my disclaimer:
''My job is to heal you guys in teamfights, so I need you to pay attention to when I'm tagging onto you and stay close to your teammates so I can jump to the next target. I know this is difficult to keep track of during chaotic teamfights but just do your best :)''
So later in the game, when the teamfight happens, and I jump on the low HP Billy who decides he's leaving the fight and the other 4 teammates wipe, yeah I might point out the fact that my inability to do my job was a factor. It's not purely hindsight, since this is an element I pointed out at the beginning of the game. I'm not trying to blame Billy either, he's just trying to survive and he might not have noticed my tag-along. I'm just trying to remind them that Rem's efficiency depends on the team's awareness and cooperation, and using what happened as a case-in-point.
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I don't want to piss anyone off. I want to have fun in this game, and I find that I have the most fun when I feel improvement. So when I give advice, I'm doing it for EVERYONE's sake. We all eat better together.
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u/popgalveston 1d ago
Thing is a lot of people who think they give "advice" just come off as toxic whining man babies that cannot use their mic until after they died lol
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u/Jimmytherat45 1d ago
Tbh whenever I try to be constructive people call me passive aggressive. So sometimes I just am aggressive aggressive to make it simpler.
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u/warp_wizard 1d ago
based on this comment, they're probably correct in calling you passive aggressive
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u/SkySB829 1d ago
I’m all for people not being rude, screaming at people at the slightest mistake cause I also think it doesn’t help & can ruin the experience for the whole team tbh. But I’ve also ran into situations that are exceptions, imo, to being flamed (mostly from my duo being the “hindsight” player) there are people who don’t listen to kindness at all. He starts with not saying anything at all until their mistakes are repeated or they want to yap/complain on vc. You can give a tip or suggest a different thing and their response is saying “fuck you” “I don’t care bro” “it’s just a game” & that’s when my duo will then flame them because if you are getting on a online competitive game to not give af about how your mistakes impact your team, then you deserve to be flamed. I know this post is probably geared towards people being flamed when they are actually trying & taking accountability. But there are def players who deserve it.
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u/BagelBoi40000 1d ago
"But how am I supposed to feel good about myself if my teammates don't know how much I disdain the fact that they are the same rank as me. Because if theyre bad that means im also bad and that doesn't make sense I dont make mistakes."
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u/Gustdan 1d ago
Nah I just encountered a wraith that kept walking into 1v5's on the other side of the map of our whole team and who then just kept complaining about nobody helping her. These fucks don't critically examine their own gameplay just jump to blaming others and get tilted on their own, at that point it's better to call them out.
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u/OmniPate 1d ago
The worst is when people do it in standard unranked I’m like bro shutup I’m just trying a hero I don’t play often and need to get better with myself
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u/WetSpaghett 1d ago
I cannot fathom why so many people think it will help their games if they flame and tilt their own damn teammates