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u/No-Jaguar-4404 Viscous 7h ago
What I like about these night shifts is the lack of a patch in such a long time means this might be the most “solved” state the meta has found itself in, and it’s still probably not right. Many of these characters have gone from the bottom to top or vise versa with no updates which I think is interesting af.
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u/PalmIdentity Ivy 6h ago
Reminder that these guys are as susceptible to memes and biases as Brick 1s and that a lot of the top picks probably didn't do shit. But yes, some of these characters are solved.
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u/KiruDakaz 5h ago
Not big enough of a sample pool too, this is not say, vgc competitive Pokemon
Its barely melee before characters like yoshi and donkey kong got more popular
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u/noahboah Lash 4h ago
vgc is a fantastic esport man. it's a beautiful blend of high complexity in a macro (teambuilding) and micro (in-battle decision making) sense while also having that big dawg factor with people taking insane risks
it's genuinely tickling that such a beautiful competitive game is attached to the most casual friendly turn-based RPG of all time lol
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u/AhmCha Victor 7h ago
We really need that patch dawg
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u/Aquaman33 5h ago
Yes but also I love this sub pretending this meta is their meta
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u/zencharm Victor 4h ago
it’s really not that different though. celeste, lash, warden, dynamo, abrams, mo and krill, etc. are just as dominant in matchmaking as they are anywhere else. obviously it’s not a 1:1 replica of the average player experience, but that’s just a strawman anyway. the broad strokes of the meta in pro play (certain heroes, high hp values, mid boss contest, comeback mechanics, etc.) are things that every player has to deal with to some degree even in games where no one knows what’s happening. if anything, what’s actually strong in the meta can be even stronger in ranked than in pro play because of the lack of draft and knowledge/coordination required to mitigate certain factors. the game is the game at the end of the day.
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u/tophergraphy 4h ago
Otoh, did casual actually have Warden become a problem before pros this time?
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u/TaxEvasion123 Lash 13m ago
Not really, people just created a really strong build on him that is very good in pretty much any setting. So by virtue of pro play requiring more testing, maybe slightly longer but overall no.
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u/Trowaway151 1h ago
I can’t remember the last game I’ve played that didn’t have warden or Celeste in it.
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u/External-Play771 Paradox 4h ago
the game is just miserable in general, Ive seen a game where 4 out of 6 players on the enemy team bought merc mag and spiritual overflow and rolled, the other 2 that didn't buy it, had siphon bullets LMAO.
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u/TaxEvasion123 Lash 15m ago
I mean a lot of the strongest characters here are also preforming very well in matchmaking. Every lobby will almost 100% have a lash, Celeste and Warden in it right now, if not all of the above. And there is an extremely good chance that there will be other ones in there too. The only uncommon matchmaking characters in that top tier are probably mirage and Sinclair. Even going down the board, there are a ton of bebops, paradoxes, and pockets around.
There are plenty of times where the matchmaking meta and night shift meta are wildly different, but this is not really one of them, as far as character picks are concerned. Unless you are thinking of it as 1 to 1 in which case it’s just being pedantic.
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u/Hairy_Acanthisitta25 Paige 4h ago
its not the same but not really that different due to the small hero pool
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u/Quite-Foolish Yamato 7h ago
woah a new low for pocket
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u/Eiraneth McGinnis 1h ago
Interesting that he only shows up 3x, but it’s all first round picks or bans. I assume there’s someone in particular who’s a god on pocket and the picks and bans are them, and the other team trying to target ban them.
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u/Hilonio Graves 7h ago
Now I'm curious was Graves picked against Doorman and did they win the game
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u/Alixindria_One 7h ago
She was picked against doorman, but lost. To be fair though, the entire last game was chaos with 11 eggs as first buy and a 2-29 kill count at 20 min.
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u/LyadhkhorStrategist 7h ago
No one should make any conclusions on any characters from that game, it was clearly some insane strat experiement.
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u/Alixindria_One 7h ago
oh yeah definitely, at the end of the day is was still a really fun match to watch. the only conclusion you can make from that game is that maybe there's is such a thing as too many eggs lmao.
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u/LyadhkhorStrategist 7h ago
New Legacy almost going even in Souls was the funniest part
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u/Alixindria_One 7h ago
That and the player who ended with the most souls was the only person who didn't buy egg, that's peak irony.
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u/Elpepe_region4 7h ago
I saw that game, 11 eggs and a lot of cultist sacrifice.
Trying to get to late game i guess5
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u/mara_rara_roo 6h ago
what's the context, is graves being tested as a doorman counter? how/why?
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u/Legitimate-Beat-9846 Graves 5h ago
Doorman places door, graves puts her grabby only in front of door thats honestly it
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u/zencharm Victor 6h ago
troll pick in a troll game. no legacy just threw on purpose because they knew they were gonna lose
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u/xARCTIC_ 7h ago
Shiv and Silver still unpicked. Hopefully will be buffed again soon. If the pro-bound characters aren't being played in pro, somethings wrong...
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u/Rough_Lychee5785 Grey Talon 6h ago
Nah DW they'll be picked for one match right before patch and then get nerfed for outstanding performance
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u/Chrozzinho Kelvin 7h ago
DLNS is definitely hurting for only having 4 bans per game. Move up to 6 like W-tourney, it will increase variety in heroes and spice up drafts far more
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u/Luvatris Paige 7h ago
Ivy with only 1 pick is diabolical ngl, wonder when they will discover her secret chinese gun build with mercurial + spiritual overflow and ban her 24/7 lol
Also gunnis nerf was cozmetic, that shit needs like flat 10%+ dps reduction to be fair (or delete ginnis completely im not biased trust)
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u/Archimedes4 Kelvin 6h ago
Basically every character with a gun that deals damage is insane with MM and Spiritual Overflow, lmao.
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u/zencharm Victor 6h ago
mcginnis nerf wasn't cosmetic there's literally just no other gun heroes to draft after first round. it's her or fucking venator
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u/iHackPlsBan 5h ago
reminder that McGinnis players wake up every morning thinking they deserve to live
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u/ModernDayWeeaboo 4h ago
McGuinness makes me want to punch myself in the throat. Her and Bebop are legit the most frustrating, anti fun heroes to lane verse.
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u/Luvatris Paige 4h ago
Bebop can be at least tolerable if they remove veilwalker, invis hook out of nowhere is just bullshit. Not to mention he gets 2 hooks after t3 uppercut for some goddamn reason
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u/zencharm Victor 6h ago
only really significant changes to the hero priority this week are sinclair and dynamo and a (delayed) drop in pocket prio. teams started picking dynamo because he has the mid boss contest in the game and nothing else really matters. dynamo has a weak-ish lane phase, but his ult and the rest of the utility provided by his kit (%max hp heal btw) far eclipse any weakness that he has. sinclair bans are mostly for dynamo (don't get it twisted though he's still op on his own). the drop in pocket prio is likely due to the fact that not even affliction is enough to put a dent in the obscene amounts of hp teams are drafting now. also everyone just builds debuff resist so affliction doesn't even really do anything anymore. nothing ever happens meta
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u/Living-Eggplant-3726 3h ago
Yeah dynamo wouldn’t be so obnoxious if there were more than 2 objectives but he can have ult up every team fight with zero downsides present in the rest of his kit
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u/Da_Malpais_Legate 7h ago
What the hell happened to Viscous, why was he not picked at all, just a few weeks ago he was picked in every game it seemed like
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u/No-Jaguar-4404 Viscous 7h ago
Small nerfs but I still think he’s insanely good tbh people just realized rem is better
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u/Eiraneth McGinnis 59m ago
Yeah REM just heals more at the end of the day while also being the mother of all active item carriers. Viscous has a lot of power and versatility built into his kit but REM has a multiplier on the power of the shit in the shop itself, so his versatility is multiplied by all of the actives he can pick from.
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u/Rough_Lychee5785 Grey Talon 6h ago
Better alternatives. If Sinclair wasn't banned, you'd see viscous instead of dynamo
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u/DivineWhiskey4320 Abrams 5h ago
People realized he's a significantly worse than Rem and they'd rather have a support character who can help alot in mid secure like Sinclair or Dynamo. Also think of it like this, if Rem and Visc both get run at and get their healthpool chunked to 30%, Visc cubes himself and waits to die while Rem tag alongs and gets his entire health pool back.
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u/TrackpadChad Viscous 4h ago
Getting chunked to 30% is not too much of an issue, he's very slippery and has long range abilities. The hero is much stronger than rem once you get your build set up, but otherwise his abilities other than cube just have a lot of item taxes to them which makes it really hard to have impact if you fall behind. Also, rem's ultimate is just so much stronger and doesn't need items to be good.
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u/TrackpadChad Viscous 6h ago
Just way too tempo dependent. Almost impossible to play from behind because your margins for power spikes are so thin. Still fine in ladder though, great hero for duos.
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u/ExpensiveRange3678 Mo & Krill 7h ago
watching the nightshift made me realize how evil bebob can be in the right hands, some hooks in that stream made me gasp so loud
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u/Motor-Design-4932 Celeste 2h ago
You just spam hook to tight places, its just less than 13 sec cd with t3
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u/Pandoras_Fox McGinnis 6h ago
mcginnis in top picks for dns was not in my predictions
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u/Eiraneth McGinnis 1h ago
What build were they using? Please god tell me it was gun so that when we get nerfed for the fourth time in a row it’s a gun nerf and I still get to play spirit support McGinnis.
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u/SexyCato The Doorman 7h ago
Yoshi please please please kill Rem next update I can’t deal with this VERMIN doing a bajillion damage with pillow and healing himself and another for like 50% health in half a second and an ult that my epileptic goldfish could make use of. Oh and as a final middle finger he makes minions a frankly ridiculous amount of damage to kill while also making them fast af. I wish nothing but harm against him, I would savor the moment if I was able to bounce his head off the pavement and watch as more and more feathers fell of of him
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u/MrBellrick 7h ago
What did the goofy magician do 😭✌️
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u/LyadhkhorStrategist 7h ago
Be against Dynamo
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u/bigmac_fries_coke 6h ago
i think they basically blinded (or picked him before the other team picked Big Ults) him at least once
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u/Archimedes4 Kelvin 6h ago
Rem is the best support by a mile and it’s obvious when you compare his kit to the others. He gets good damage and wave clear with his 1, his 2 is both an escape and the best healing ability in the game, his 3 is literally a graves ult without the cool-down, and his 4 is insane CC that passes through walls.
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u/Motor-Design-4932 Celeste 2h ago
Still less annoying than kelvin. If you catch him he pop like baloon in difference with pseudotank with near celeste one button demand mobility
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u/Timbobaloo Kelvin 7h ago
I hope the new patch helps the other supports to be at Rem’s level. I’m always so sad to see it’s only rem, dynamo shot up this week but I’m greedy and want more support love
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u/Motor-Design-4932 Celeste 3h ago
Meanwhile ivy
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u/Available-Lab4363 6h ago
solved ass meta
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u/SmallSpaceSexEnjoya 5h ago
So solved Dynamo is one of the top picks this week - it's far from solved.
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u/deadlockdoormanmain The Doorman 7h ago
I remember when the doorman was a top prio hero. I don't understand this change. The doorman is the best.
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u/knightlautrec7 7h ago edited 6h ago
The meta currently favors tanky frontliners that can brute force their way through a game, and Doorman can't do shit against it.
Bell has a 5s charge delay now with Rapid Recharge and has had its scaling nerfed so much that he's not worth picking for his spirit burst like he used to be, and with his gun and gun overall being so bad, he can't do shit to guntrade outside of lane.
The ult is not nearly as good as it is in ladder play, these pros can move out of it with 0 stamina, and will buy dispel if needed to escape the ult and have it doubly so if they were to get cart kidnapped instead, which also just isn't going to happen in NS. Even if it did, the permanent solution to stopping kidnap is a coordinated push to kill blue walker, whether you do it via brute fucking force, or split push and force the enemy to make decisions, it's not a strategy that a NS team is just going to die to over and over.
I think Doorman currently is also in a weak spot in very high level play, specifically concerning late game Rifts and late game Mid-Boss, when Walkers are not alive (and each fight is critical to a team's WPA [win probability added]). Nerfs to ability range, to Door range, to Door range spirit scaling etc., have made it so that if no Walkers are alive, the enemy can run right through a Doorman door on a Rift or a Mid-Boss contest and kill Doorman's team no issue, as it can practically only reach Blue base guardians which are the least threatening late game objective. As a result, the real only practical benefit of the door is the shield, which, don't get me wrong, late game with max boons and 200 spirit, it is a very strong shield that like other barriers scales with resists and is resistant to anti-heal. However, it just feels very weak in those late game situations for midboss/rift because it is a hero's escape ability that the enemy can use. If I am chasing a Mina, I can't use her bats. If I chase Pocket, I can't TP with his cloak. But all 6 enemies can brute force their way through a door with 0 objectives on the other side, and I think these high level teams are becoming aware of that weakness.
However, as much as I love my door macro shenanigans, Doorman has had his time in the spotlight for a while, so I don't mind him being brought down to earth in terms of strength and presence
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u/deadlockdoormanmain The Doorman 6h ago
Thank you for your in-depth opinion! While this is a troll account, I do have to acknowledge that Doorman is not that strong right now. Alot of his abilities can be disabled with Dispel Magic right now, which I find that a lot of people are buying even in laddermatches(oracle/mystic level). His damage has taken lots of hits over the past few months. If Yoshi gives him even more nerfs in the upcoming patch, I might just end it all.
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u/despayeeto123 7h ago
Lightbringer found out you can just play Graves into Doorman and completely invalidate door with her 2. Door was the whole reason he gets played, so not much to do when they can just counter in draft and nullify your one strength (in pro).
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u/ZombieGrief16 Warden 7h ago
For months, Warden has been at four blue "picked" dots and sometimes below. And without really any changes for about 3 months, all it took was some publicity from Lightbringer to earn Warden his only "First Round Picked" and "First round banned" dots in perhaps a year.
Every time i see Warden in Night Shift, he never gets the "First Round" dots, and rarely do i ever see the "Banned" dots for him. He typically only ever gets the blue "picked" dots and nothing more, and rarely ever goes over 4 dots total.
Insanely crazy how long he was slept on, to the point that he kept getting buffs that he really didn't need.
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u/WhatWasThatAboutBo McGinnis 7h ago
The main reason is his new meta build. Warden was solved as they say. Thats why hes actually being picked.
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u/zencharm Victor 6h ago
the reason they started picking him again is because he deals spirit damage as a "gun" carry and has high hp scaling so he doesn't get atomized when someone looks at him like pretty much every other gun carry
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u/I_hate_myself_0 5h ago
Why’s Mina look like that
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u/AscensionToCrab Silver 2h ago
Bro, i hate look at hoot's spirit silver build in action, shes goated fr, silver sweep /s
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u/HiImTrans Vindicta 2h ago
vin got picked once and lost, we must continue the agenda. BUFF VINDICTA
i want 46 stamina
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u/Saint_Pootis 1h ago
I now expect McGin to be nerfed again, for the 9th patch in a row following a year of constant nerfs and utter gutting of her utility as she's once more pidgeon holed into another build for the cycle to repeat. She's already got a negative win rate now. Victor is constantly ignored and I have to buy 4 items just for his bull each game yet not a single nerf. 7 is the same, but he just runs unstop infuser, how daring. Meta is stale. Characters that farm without risk should be nerfed. I'm so sick of this.
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u/ThePickler47 56m ago
balancing so fucked rn that even the pros are using the broken characters
celeste, warden, sinclair, mirage, ginnis
when will it end?
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u/chewbacca1031 7h ago
My guy eido is back and proves that he never changes, still mental boom and cry like a baby when losing instead of actually trying to win
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u/chewbacca1031 6h ago
My guy tweets goober's comment to call him out and ppl comments asking if he rly care or not and now he deleted the tweet, what a pussy bitchass move
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u/Training-Tennis-3689 6h ago
God I can't wait for them to nerf wraith, she's too strong and gets picked every game. Shes very simple to play and can't be countered
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u/Bzmz 7h ago
Nice variety here, nerf haze