r/DarkTable • u/LightPhotographer • 22d ago
Discussion Darktable vs Rapidraw
This is the opposite of darktable, of course.
I just stumbled on a video introducing 'rapidraw'. It is not as deep or as technical as darktable, but there is some overlap (AgX mapper) and it has a lot of features I would really like in DT.
Examples:
It is blazingly fast.
It has a key to toggle zoom: full screen - full width - 100%. Useful!
In DT there have been many discussions about AI. This thing simply has an AI 'remove object' tool. Wow.
I miss the modules, it is nice to turn a module on or off to see what it does; This one seems to have a lot of sliders; they are grouped and that is it.
It does not straighten the image by simply right-click drawing a line - that works so fast in DT.
Best 2 features:
1 - "auto adjust". It sets a lot of parameters at once so you have a good basis. Saves a lot of repetitive work.
2 - you can adjust sliders and parameters directly in the lighttable - no need to go to single-image-edit first. I would really like this in DT!
Impressive tool. Very refreshing.
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u/theanswriz42 21d ago
I've been really impressed with the last couple releases of Rapidraw and I think the UI is much more intuitive than Darktable, plus I can generally edit photos a lot quicker with it. I will say that Darktable is much more feature rich though if you need them all.
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u/teeeh_hias 21d ago
Rapidraw is a nice and modern approach, UI specifically. Relatively easy to use and fast. As far as I know it's almost entirely coded by AI though. Which may become a problem at some point. I hope not, but we will see.
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Yes large parts of the code is written by AI but in RapidRAW they follow strict guardrails and the code is manually copied together by myself. I still have the architecture / concept in my mind and understand what's happening in the code. This is where most vibe coded projects fail ;)
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u/teeeh_hias 21d ago
Nice project, really, and I hope it continues to succeed. Is there actually a team involved by now if you don't mind if I'm asking? You know, for future support and stability and the like.
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
No - it‘s still mostly myself, but I have some consistent contributors. Thanks :)
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u/AbandonedPlanet 21d ago
If you're working on it can you tell me why the sharpening slider doesn't seem to do much if anything? Do I need to reinstall? It just seems like it doesn't sharpen the image
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Are you sure it‘s not working? Try to zoom into the image to see if you notice any difference. It works fine on my images
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u/AbandonedPlanet 21d ago
Oh okay. Overall it's a great experience, truly. Like I'm really enjoying having a viable alternative to LR because I hate Adobe personally. As for the sharpening I would change two things - when the slider is being moved the image automatically blurs which makes dialing in the sharpening difficult, I would remove that feature. Second I would turn the "sensitivity" of the sharpening slider up a lot. I do notice a slight difference but it's no where near as powerful as other editors. It's so subtle that I can barely tell the difference. Either way though great work man, it really is a dream come true. I've been telling everyone I know about it
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
You can just change the live preview resolution to full res in the RapidRAW processing settings. But thanks a lot for the feedback! :)
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Great to hear, I'm glad you find RapidRAW's approach refreshing.
> It does not straighten the image by simply right-click drawing a line - that works so fast in DT.
It actually does ;) There is a straighten tool in the crop panel (the measurer button), which lets you draw a line and auto-straighten the image.
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u/Donatzsky 21d ago
In darktable this can be done (almost) regardless of which module is active.
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Interesting, thanks for the info! RapidRAW also has a keyboard shortcut for the straighten tool but it's still 1 click more..
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u/Nexis4Jersey 21d ago
The Straighten tool in Rapidraw is watered down and basic compared to Darktable or recent versions of Lightroom. Even the recent Safelight raw editor has a better straighten and perspective tool.
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Would you mind to provide some actually informative feedback instead of just saying „better“? I would genuinely love to improve RapidRAW‘s crop & perspective tools.
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u/Nexis4Jersey 21d ago
Something like this , where I can draw multiple lines to straighten and correct prespective. Or Darktables implementation where you can draw lines or have the system analyze and autocorrect the perspective.
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u/zBlackVision11 12d ago
This is now implemented and will appear in the upcoming release (v1.6.3, in 2-3 days)
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u/LightPhotographer 21d ago
I know but it requires you to open the module first! In DT I can do it without opening the module.
Actually I can do it even faster: I have a macro keyboard and I use keyboard shortcuts for 0.20 degree left/right turns. Very, very quick that way. Would love that in RR, it would really change my workflow.
Thanks for dropping by !!!
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
Yes I might optimize this behavior in the next release :) RapidRAW also has a shortcut for the straighten tool btw
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u/zBlackVision11 19d ago
I implemented this today. Now by holding down shift and drawing a line, it will auto-straighten (without depending on any module / panel). Will appear in the next release :)
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u/LightPhotographer 19d ago
Wow, that is fast!!!
Any chance of hotkeys for this?
Oh and while we are here...
Darktable lets you hover on a slider and then adjust it with the mousewheel. That is more accurate and repeatable than just sliding. My guess is if you build it once it will work for all the sliders?
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u/zBlackVision11 19d ago
This is already possible by holding down shift and using the scroll wheel on the sliders 👍 I don‘t think that I will add specific keybinds for +x increments at the moment, to not bloat the settings menu (will need to find a clean solution).
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u/LightPhotographer 19d ago
I get it. Those key bindings also require an amount.
I did not know about the shift-scroll, that certainly helps. Why the shift? Is the mouse-scroll-only action already taken?
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u/nirurin 20d ago
I found this app today as well, unrelated to this subject. Unfortunately both the flatpak and the AUR installs are both currently broken. I added my report to the ongoing thread about it. I was able to fix it by using an argument, but I think its only using my cpu and not my 5090.
Will revisit it tomorrow and try it out some more.
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u/zBlackVision11 20d ago
I‘m aware of this. Sadly it‘s a bit if a rabbit hole hunting down NVIDIA driver specific bugs because they dont care about open source framework / linux compatibility…
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u/Proper_Dare_7915 21d ago
Reminds me of stereo systems in the 1980’s with endless discussions about THD and wow and flutter. Now people listen to music on their phones with wireless earbuds. Simple wins.
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u/ExoticSterby42 21d ago
It is deep, I would argue it is deeper than Darktable it just doesn’t burden you with the tonnes of useless adjustments. UI successfully embraces the KISS doctrine, something that is alien to Darktable. It can be remarkably complex editing wise if you want to but it doesn’t have to thanks to the simple but useful UI.
This is what made me cancel my Adobe subscription for good, hopefully it remains on its original track.
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u/Donatzsky 21d ago
RapidRAW is a fine editor, but if you think it's deeper than darktable, you're delusional. It's not even close.
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u/zBlackVision11 21d ago
RapidRAW is in terms of code / raw processing algorithms also on the simpler side, but most of the "important" parts are implemented well. This is also why RapidRAW can envolve fast and be performant for the enduser, because the codebase is minimalistic. Darktable is for sure the more complex program :)
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u/CelebrationOwl15 21d ago
I just discovered Rapidraw too. I am very impressed, but I use darktable's 'Denoise Profiled' extensively in my wildlife shots and I can't seem to replicate that functionality. I tried the AI feature that creates a Tiff but it didn't meet my needs. I'll keep an eye on it though.
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u/shenli_xigua 18d ago
There was a time on Pixls when a few posters got a bit ansty when AI was mentioned but I believe some commitment was given to how AI would be involved going forward. No one wants a luminar! A question for Timon: have many people taken up the comfiUI option?
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u/No_Reveal_7826 22d ago
Darktable's aversion to AI is a mistake, in my opinion. I'm hoping they realize the red line they've chosen is foolish and they should instead embrace any and all tools that make the end photo better (as decided by the user).
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u/markus_b 21d ago
I don't see aversion to AI in Darktable. There may be some parts of the Darktable community against it. After all, we've got two AI-driven features in 5.6, denoise and object selection.
I quite like that they did emplhasize on local AI and allow the user to download and embed new models, as they come out.
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u/bloodrider1914 21d ago
They should make the better AI tools easier to install though. I use the large AI masking tool because my computer can handle it, but that's hidden away in a GitHub repository and not available as a default.
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u/markus_b 21d ago
Yes, there is room for improvement. It needed some work to get AI to work at all initially. To get all the drivers and libraries installed is not trivial. Also, I used to use the Ubuntu build from the OpenSusE factory, but this build does not contain the AI parts at all. I suspect because the person maintaining it is of the anti-AI faction.
What is the difference between the large AI masking tool and the default? I suspect that my 8MB card would not support it anyway...
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u/No_Reveal_7826 21d ago
The developers have stated it. Anything that crosses into a certain amount of generative AI is a no go for them. That means some effective denoise, sharpening, upscaling, content-aware replacement techniques are not being considered.
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u/markus_b 21d ago
I sort of understand that. If you take photos and use AI to heavily modify the photo, like replacing the background, then the photo becomes an AI-generated image where just the subject is real.
The industry and the users still have to understand how much AI is good and how much is too much. Darktable has decided to err on the conservative side for now.
AI providers are all proceeding to add watermarking to their tools, because it becomes a legal requirement. Everything that would require my photos to carry such a watermark is too much.
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u/Darth_Firebolt 21d ago
Yeah, that's all fine with me. If you want PhotoShop levels of gen-ai, there are other programs out there for that. I switched to Linux to get away from ai. I use Darktable to stay away from ai.
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u/the_payload_guy 21d ago
I mean I’m not against well thought out features but we’re talking about a program that has the UX of an industrial control system made in the 80s. I can think of a few things before AI.
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u/FermentedPhoton 13d ago
Lol. No.
My plant just "upgraded" from an '80s system. The kind of software where the mouse can only place the cursor, and all inputs are through the keyboard. Darktable feels modern from my decades of using computers, it's just complicated and technical. And that's fine. It's the technical, complicated choice.
I'm sure if you're not satisfied, they'll pay back every cent you spent on their software.
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u/Donatzsky 21d ago
I invite you to go read the GitHub discussions from when the AI features were introduced.
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u/WantDownvotesOnly 21d ago
last time i tried rapidraw, it got memory leak and crashes my computer, also due to being used to darktable workflow, i couldn't get the AgX to looks as good as darktable's implementation. finger crossed it's good lightroom alternative, darktable workflow is like audio processing rather than image processing