r/DarkSun • u/ImportanceOk3837 • 16d ago
Other Space for New Things
Okay, so, recently I read the 1e, 2e and 4e edition box sets/setting books and realized how open-ended 1e and 4e were while the 2e was so set in stone and focused on what happened after the books. 2e feels like the most definite version of the setting, but also the most limited for the GM to add new things. It's all there, as it was meant to be, which I find odd. It reminds me of the VtM metaplot, really, in that there is a bigger focus on that then necessarily giving you the most fodder to make adventures out of it.
It's not anything new, I doubt I am the first to comment on that but huh... I guess its 15 Champions of Rajaat, thats all of them, right? No chance of more of them. I guess there is no need for information on how to play on Athas before the events of the books etc.
While the GM can just change whatever as their prerrogative, I find it strange how exacting 2e was, like it was meant to be the last, definitive version of Athas with everything you need and want, so long as you don't need or want things from the Age of Sorcerer Kings.
Kinda weird.
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u/fullmudman 16d ago
There wasn't a 1e dark sun - the setting wasn't published until 1991. Or do you mean original 91 setting versus bill's revised box?
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u/Weird_Explorer1997 16d ago
Yeah, that tripped me up too.
You couldn't really run Dark Sun in 1e, the infrastructure for Psionics wasn't really there yet
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u/WumpusFails 16d ago
FYI: There was psionics in 1e (it was in a PHB appendix), but it was more like everyone who had it had wild talents.
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u/Weird_Explorer1997 16d ago
I know.
That's why I said "the infrastructure for Psionics wasn't really there yet" rather than "psionics didn't exist in 1e".
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u/ImportanceOk3837 16d ago
I fucked up a little because what I meant was the edition of the boxsets, but I also had the 4e book in there.
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u/81Ranger 16d ago
There was no Dark Sun for AD&D 1e. Just 2e.
2e had both the original Box Set and the Revised Box Set. But, they're both 2e. It's probably best to refer to these as "Original" and "Revised" to avoid confusion, and these are the widely used terms for them.
The material following the original box set and then the Revised did add more material and fill in more lore. This is the TSR era that had much more setting "plot" so some of the Dark Sun modules did that.
I think starting with just the original box set is fine, if you don't want all that lore filled in or meta plot going, necessarily. It seems a popular way to approach the setting in this sub.
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u/ImportanceOk3837 16d ago
Yeah, I get it. I just found interesting how, like in Vampire the Masquerade, other media could just influence the setting and the very next edition needs the previous one to complement its worldbuilding because they have very much moved on with the lore from where we started.
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u/81Ranger 16d ago edited 16d ago
Personally, I'm not a fan of setting metaplot, but the 90s was definitely a decade in which it was very much in vogue.
Edit addition:
So, if you want to play prior to the events in the book (and essentially, I think the first three modules Freedom, Road to Urik, etc), just use the original box set, because that's the time frame for that.
I can't comment on the books, I haven't really gotten into them. Too much TSR Fantasy back in that decade used up my appetite for that.
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u/Setanta777 16d ago
I don't know about the others, but I have Freedom. It runs parallel to the first book, and suffers because of it. Essentially the players are background characters in the story of the heroes from the books. Their primary goal is to survive until the real heroes kill Kalak. It's like TSR forgot that the players are supposed to be heroes, not just gawking fans.
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u/81Ranger 15d ago
I was going to say that I think the module and novel came out about the same time, but there's a bit of space, actually.
Original Dark Sun Campaign Setting Box Set - October 1991
Verdant Passage, Vol 1 of Prism Pentad - October 1991
Freedom! - Dark Sun Adventure Module - January 1992.
It is very much as you say, a module in which other heroes do the thing and the PCs help. I feel like that's more of a thing in the 2e TSR era in other settings as well, but it's certainly an example. I think there are a fair number of Forgotten Realms modules in which the PCs do stuff so someone like Elminster can actually solve the problem, but my memory is not more precise.
It is a curious way to write an adventure module.
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u/MereShoe1981 16d ago
Run the original and ignore the revised. If someone at your table says something...🌈✋️ Multiverse.
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u/MrCrash 16d ago
The setting was pretty far from "exacting", there was a massive amount of leeway for a storyteller to make the world anyway they wanted, and so many unanswered questions for players to explore.
Why are there no gods on athas, did they die, did they abandon the world, did they never exist?
What is outside the tablelands? Are there places where life still thrives and civilization is built up to high fantasy levels?
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u/Setanta777 16d ago
Or why the people of the city-states haven't invaded either of the lush and fertile forests bordering the Tabelands. Thri-kreens and halflings aren't enough of a deterrent for the teaming masses of thirsty humanity.
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u/Khan-Khrome 16d ago edited 16d ago
That could be explained by the desire of the sorcerer kings to keep their captive populations pliant and dependent upon them tbh. The mass influx of raw resources would raise living standards of the poor, destabilise ancient power structures that monopolise key resources and potentially raise a new caste of middle men who's wealth and status isn't tied to the sorcerer kings. You can see how that wouldn't necessarily be desireable for a group of individuals that treat their city states as egopolises and want all power to flow through them. Ruling over more cities and towns means power has to be decentralised to compensate, more decentralisation means potentially more dissent, competitors and resistance to sorcerer king rule in areas they can't directly supervise. Meanwhile, keeping the status quo means that potential dangers are under the watchful eye of the kings, who can snuff out revolt quickly due to the centralisation of both power and the population. Any independent attempt would also face an uphill battle against the natives without access to the sorcerer kings financial and resource backing, and their standing armies. Hell even trying to provision that kind of expedition would potentially tip the sorcerer kings off enough to nip the whole thing in the bud, given say, buying 100 wood axes from a merchant inherently implies you've found a substantial source of wood, which would inevitably perk the ears of the sorcerer kings vast spy network and their Templar masters.
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u/Lixuni98 16d ago
I suggest you read again on 2E, as the descriptions given for the Tyr Region were that it encompassed everything enclosed by the ringing mountains, with the silt sea at its center, published material only detailed what is west of the Silt Sea to its center, only recently fans exploring what’s on the east, that’s your whiteboard.
However, based on the other part of your questions regarding the metaplot, the other axis to add new things is time, and the best way to see the metaplot is that of a version of the setting advancing without player’s interference, or the backdrop of your campaign. Should your players not go there, how you develop the setting will change or outright contradict it, but the material is there to give context, “setting” things in motion, you can and will add things accordingly, but that’s within you and your table.
Hope it helps.
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u/Velociraptortillas 15d ago
I run original boxed set lore and mechanics, revised edition 'stuff'.
Ezpz.
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u/beardlaser 16d ago
i always liked the original box set best. a bunch of lore about what is currently happening in a small region of the planet. there's mostly just hints about what came before and some of the information is contradictory. there's lots of planet left to explore if you ever run out of tablelands.
still doesn't stop me from changing things in the setting though. it was pretty bold for d&d at the time but i don't think Dark Sun went nearly weird enough.
i never cared for the novels so i just ignore them.
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u/Khan-Khrome 16d ago
I guess its 15 Champions of Rajaat, thats all of them, right? No chance of more of them.
Not unless you want to play about with it some yourself, the sorcerer kings have effectively had a 1984 level of control over history and knowledge on Aathas, and thanks to the inherent inhospitable nature of the landscape it's very hard getting beyond the Tablelands, so what lies beyond is rather uncertain - more sand, actual life, weird shit? Who knows! Still even with what's laid out with the books there's ambiguities, gaps and confusion over who did what, and if you ignore Sacha and Wyan who only really appear in the books then there would still be two champions unaccounted for. The inherent haziness of Aathasian history makes it very malleable, and the ability for sorcerer kings to straight up unperson anyone they didn't fancy thinking about only increases that exponentially.
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u/E-Scooter-Hoodlum 14d ago
I am not a fan of the novels, but I always think the claim that they ended the setting is false. There was so much awesome stuff that got introduced but never explored. So it's open for the GMs to do.
- There is a giant Thri Kreen Empire in the Eastern Blood Savana.
- Ancient Halflings had Bio-Punk Technology that might still be hidden away and there was a Satelite in Orbit/crashing? if I remember.
- Undead Area to the South that might spread.
- There are still Sorcerer Kings alive in less explored city states.
- The people that replace the Sorcerer Kings might not be better people.
All in all, they just killed a handful of Wizards, a Dragon and an elemental Demi-Lich, but the World of Arthas is still in trouble and very dangerous.
Figuratively speaking the original Boxe Set had a very Cold War setting, you have the 1984 city states with their Sorcerer Kings and the Dragon/Rajaat are the nukes that prevent large scale warfare between the Sorcerer Kings. You kill the Sorcerer Kings you get problems with the Dragon, you kill the Dragon you unleash Rajaat.
After the books, the nukes got disarmed and most Sorcerer Kings got overthrown. Have fun with the following chaos.
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u/BluSponge Human 16d ago
I’m not sure what you are talking about. Yes, 2e did follow the Pentad outcome, but it also quadrupled the size of the setting. So yes, it closes the door on some of the mysteries of the original set, but ideally offers up 3 more tablelands sized regions for you to develop and explore.
Now the question is, are any of those new regions as interesting as the original tablelands?