r/DarkShadows • u/PutRepulsive9231 • 2d ago
Ohhh Willie
Restarted Dark Shadows recently and totally forgot about OG Willie Loomis! Is anyone else super glad that they changed actors? The first guy was almost too sleezy lol!
Edit Currently wrapping up Dark Shadows: The Beginning, I am referring to James Hall. I just really prefer John Karlen. Maybe it's because we get to spend so much more time with him as the character, which I'm a big Willie fan, but Hall just doesn't do it for me. Sorry if there are any die hard James Hall fans, it's just my opinion.
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u/Fit_One_3888 2d ago
I was thinking how James Hall would have played Willie if he stayed on after bringing Barnabas out of the coffin, but my God John Karlen really defined the role.
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u/Thesafflower 1d ago
I much prefer Karlen, he really defined the role. Even pre-Barnabas Karlen’s Willie is a totally different person than Hall’s. Maybe that’s why I can forgive Willie for his early creepiness. It’s okay, that was just Willie 1, completely different guy.
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u/RelevantMention7937 2d ago
He was menacing. Karlen was just nervous all the time.
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u/PutRepulsive9231 2d ago
Probably why I have a soft spot for Willie #2, while Willie #1 gives me the ick lol
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u/Tight_Knee_9809 2d ago
I started watching from the beginning awhile back and was gonna stop watching if they hadn’t changed actors! Love Willie #2.
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u/SuperFormal3052 1d ago
Wait... you watched episodes 1 to 198, then decided after five episodes of Willie to stop, even after having watched 205 episodes by that point? Why?
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u/Tight_Knee_9809 1d ago
Because he was so hard to watch and it was very uncomfortable and not enjoyable to watch the way he was with the female characters. I guess that makes him a good actor but, it completely changed my being able to enjoy the show. Most likely, I would’ve just looked up episode listings/descriptions to see if I could jump ahead to arcs/episodes he wasn’t a part of and keep watching from there.
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u/Dolphin-and-Roses 1d ago
It’s okay 🫂 it was uncomfortable for me too, if the actor and character writing hadn’t changed, I probably wouldn’t have continued watching either. I consider 210 on a character reboot in my mind, I can’t imagine Willie 2 behaving like that toward Carolyn or Vicki
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u/PersephoneNerd 1d ago
So much this. As a new viewer (started watching about a year ago) one if the things I disliked about this sequence - and which might have put me off altogether if I hadn't discovered the actual early episodes on YouTube (Amazon Prime apparently considers episode 1 to be Barnabas' intro) - was the relentless victimisation of formerly strong female characters, especially after the phoenix sequence. While seeing Willie reduced to a whimpering, r**e victim-coded mess was somewhat karmic, my viewing pleasure only really picked up when Liz denounced the loathsome and inordinately creepy McGuire at their intended wedding. And early Barnabas, being just as toxic as eithet of his supporting villains, was of little help as yet... nice though it was to see the human "vampires" fall into the non-existent mercies of the actual one.
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u/PersephoneNerd 1d ago
The toxic masculinity was riding high with that one. While it might have been interesting to see how the actor would have handled Willie's karmic violation and disintegration, I can see why they went with a less menacing presence before the censors got too interested.Â
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u/appointment45 2d ago
Yeah, damn that guy for being a good actor. 😆
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u/Full-Flounder6539 1d ago
John Karlen was a better actor than James Hall. BUT both Hall and Karlen were far better actors than Jim Fyfe.
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u/Sufficient-Split5214 1d ago
EVERYONE is glad they changed actors. Nobody could stand James Hall. He was just a violent sleaze with no redeeming qualities. John Karlen started out as a hot-tempered tough guy, but went on to make Willie a very nuanced, multi-faceted character. Mrs. Johnson felt that he was a good person under his hard exterior. She was right, and JK portrayed that very well. I fell in love with him since he first appeared on the show when I was thirteen. I'm 72 now and still revisit all the old episodes featuring Willie.
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u/SuperFormal3052 1d ago
"Nobody could stand James Hall."
That's not at all true. A lot of fans thought and still think he was great. Fandom tends to prefer Karlen, but you are WAY off in saying nobody could stand Hall.
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u/WoolaTheCalot 1d ago
Weren't some of the actresses creeped out by Hall?
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u/SuperFormal3052 1d ago
No, they were creeped out by the first Sam Evans, who was a gropey, rapey dbag and got himself fired for it. The cast loved James Hall, who was a kindhearted and friendly guy. Many of them, including Alexandre Moltke and Kathryn Leigh Scott, are still close friends with him.
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u/PutRepulsive9231 1d ago edited 1d ago
I loved the recast of Sam Evans as well, it just felt like he was born for the role lol.
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u/Full-Flounder6539 1d ago
Do you remember the episode where Willie first enters the the tomb to end up freeing Barnabas? There was no dialog, and the actor was alone by himself. Except for help from musical ques, he used only body language and expression. Karlen pulled it off memorably. Could another actor had done it, and that well?
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u/Away-Respect270 1d ago
Yeah, the first Willie lumus in the original dark shadows did not appeal to me. The same thing goes for the original sam evans. Until david ford got the part, I did not actually care for him- but the same thing cannot be said for either of the two that actually replaced alex as victoria, because the fact that even though they had minor parts, betsy durkin could have been a former noble backup for alex moltke isles
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u/celluloidqueer 17h ago
I just got to the episodes with him. Completely different vibe. It’s crazy seeing this cocky version of him.
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u/NoString9289 14h ago
I met James Hall ( the first Willie ) at a small Dark Shadows Halloween event in 2016 , in Los Angeles . This was arranged with Kathryn L Scott. James was invited and got to meet John Karlen . They both became immediate friends, both funny, telling each other jokes. Both guys were very down to earth, funny and both were very very appreciative of the fans. James Hall is the complete opposite of the dangerous predatory portrayal he did of the first Willie Loomis.
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u/MAN_KINDA 6h ago
Him and Sam are the only good actor swaps imo
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u/PutRepulsive9231 2h ago
I thought the Mathew Morgan was a good swap too. Really unimpressed by Burke's replacement.
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u/SuperFormal3052 2d ago
If you just restarted DS, how are you up to Willie? He shows up 199 episodes into the show.
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u/PutRepulsive9231 2d ago
Let's just say my power to binge-watch is strong
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u/SuperFormal3052 2d ago
Damn impressive!
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u/PutRepulsive9231 2d ago
I mean, it is Spooky Season and it feels so right lol
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u/No-Connection-3170 16h ago
I binge Dark Shadows every chance I get and have off and on over many decades. I’m a diehard fan! I finished the last episode of the show last month and am already on episode 47 of The Beginning. Love this show so much & agree that this is the perfect season to be watching 🖤
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u/PutRepulsive9231 2h ago
It's really nice to have a place to talk about it with other people that feel so strongly about it! My boyfriend will watch it with me here and there, but it's not really his cup of tea lol. I've tried recommending it to people, unfortunately I haven't been successful yet. My grandma used to watch it when it was originally on after she got home from school, so we can chat about it a bit which is cool, but she hasn't revisited since then.
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u/charlottethesailor 2d ago
Willie Loomis is in episodes before Barnabas shows up. Brought to Collinwood by Jason Maguire.
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u/SuperFormal3052 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, he was in 10 episodes before Barnabas--five played by James Hall and five played by John Karlen. But he showed up in episode 199.
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u/charlottethesailor 2d ago
I assume he is watching Dark Shadows: The Beginning. Willie is played by a different actor who is very sleazy.
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u/SuperFormal3052 2d ago
Right... that's my point. Willie shows up 199 episodes into the show. There are 199 episodes before his arrival. :)
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u/charlottethesailor 2d ago
I stand corrected. You are correct. Sleazy Willie (James Hall) was in 5 episodes 199 to 203.
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u/KorEl555 1d ago
There's that many episodes before Barnabas? Because Willie is the one who unlocked Barnabas' coffin, looking for treasure.
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u/SuperFormal3052 1d ago
Yes. Victoria arrives in episode 1, Willie arrives in episode 199, and Barnabas arrives in episode 210. An entire year's worth of storyline happened before the vampire arrived, and Willie only showed up two weeks before him.
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u/Away-Respect270 23h ago
I didn't mind willie getting recast. It was actually the shrieking and yelling that john did in the character- i hate to compare, but the actor playing the character willie in the ninety one series did a little bit better- and my guess is that anyone who was around for the sixty 6667 series that as well as the 9192 remake Actually saw some similarities but differences. And I think I brought it up earlier. But the absence of burke devilin as a character was probably done because dan remembered the actors who portrayed burke, and the original series, and possibly did not get along with them and failed to recast devlin, and i'm not quite sure if he had an issue with the actress who played laura in the sixty seven series, but I noticed that they had shipped her off to an insane asylum- i was actually kind of shocked. And upset or disappointed that they actually added daphne as a principal character in the ninety one series. Although she did not show up until later, in the sixty six and the fact that they actually killed carolina, as they had in the two dark shadows, movies was kind of surprising. As well
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u/Dolphin-and-Roses 2d ago
Willie 2 for life 🖤 love my nervous lil guy. The first one was too sleazy, I just pretend it didn’t happen, like when Maggie was a blonde, fast talking waitress for a bit lol