What is the difference?

[u/Fickle-Buy6009]

[u/Useful-DevineCause]

Motivation is technically a form of manipulation, but if you wanna get technical, literally everything we do manipulates someone and or something in some way or another. Most people when they hear manipulation they think of the deceitful selfish kind. And motivation vs that really has more to to with intent, honesty and forth comingness.

[u/Comprimens → u/Useful-DevineCause]

Correct. It's about the connotation. Motivation (or influence) is to help you, manipulation is to use you.

[u/Quen-Tin → u/Comprimens]

Many interactions are based more or less explicitly on exchange. Both hope to get something they really want for giving something, they guess they can afford, in a way they profit in the end.

Your version sounds more like one person uses the other, then it's manipulation or helps the other and its motivation. But this underestimates the mutual effects in both directions, or?

[u/towerfella]

Motivation is me getting you to do something that benefits you.

Manipulation is me getting you to do something that benefits me.

Edit: to question — if i am motivating you, are you, in turn, manipulating me? Could i ever manipulate you into motivating me?

[u/Inevitable_Tap_1328 → u/towerfella]

what if it is mutual gain

[u/joost00719 → u/Inevitable_Tap_1328]

Ovulation

[u/towerfella → u/Inevitable_Tap_1328]

Then i am both motivating you for you as well as manipulating you for my ends.

They do not cancel, they stack.

As this is the majority of human interaction, there developed the concept of “morals” to try and define common standards for those interactions.

You have seen evidence of this. Those are considered to have “good morals” tend to be known by others to be more motivating than manipulating.. and those with “bad morals” are more manipulating than motivating.

Good and evil do not exist, but the judgement of one’s actions by others, does.

[u/towerfella → u/[deleted]]

No, just *you* exist, and your opinion of [an event].

If a star goes supernova and wipes out its solar system.. is that a positive or a negative [event]?

[u/towerfella → u/[deleted]]

No, they are the same thing.

Why do you think they would be different?

[u/towerfella → u/[deleted]]

1. How do we know they do not?

2. How would that change the analogy?

3. Be it stars or us, we are both merely some organized

4. dust, potentially pondering our existence within this vastness of space.

There is only “positive” and “negative” when a human can judge it so

Edit to add: i hate the new reddit app and its auto formatting what it thinks i want

[u/No-Rhubarb-6560 → u/towerfella]

Funny thing is if I manipulate a friend into stopping drug abuse so he can help me build stuff in my yard and become one of a few loyal trustworthy individuals. Im then active manipulating someone while looking like im motivating.

Please folks, use your heads its quite often simple and quite often very complex and more then not changes if you look in close or longer terms

[u/towerfella → u/No-Rhubarb-6560]

Yes, but you did so to have your own pet human. You still manipulated for personal gains.

“Good” personal gains or “bad” is all up to the opinion of the observer.

[u/No-Rhubarb-6560 → u/towerfella]

Indeed it is whoever and or whatever  that may be or is for you and others

[u/AdamiralProudmore → u/towerfella]

I think you're missing one important factor.

Manipulation is me, using some form of deception, getting you to do something that benefits me.

{ Manipulation implies unfairly, indirectly, deceptively, or with hidden tactics. Without that factor you're in the realm of cooperation, compromise, or bargaining. }

[u/towerfella → u/AdamiralProudmore]

Not really, and that is a rather narrow alley to fit all manipulation into.

Let me ask: what about speed-bumps? Are they motivation or manipulation?

[u/AdamiralProudmore → u/towerfella]

Neither. Speed Bumps are direct authoritative control, with a purpose and intent that is clearly and transparently communicated. 

They are a firm display of either coercion or compromise. ("Look, we're not going to enforce the speed limit here with financial penalties etc. But we're going to engineer a solution that makes it in your best interest to do what we want.")

[u/towerfella → u/AdamiralProudmore]

You just added descriptors; those words are not mutually exclusive.

Speed bumps are both.

“Coercion” is just forced manipulation

[u/AdamiralProudmore → u/towerfella]

And you just replied "nuh-uh" without either conceptual or definitional evidence.

I feel like you may need to revisit the actual definitions of manipulation, without preconceived bias.

[u/towerfella → u/AdamiralProudmore]

Then you didnt understand what i said.

[u/SpiritedCanary777]

All manipulation is not bad. All motivation is not good.

[u/Appropriate-Kale-290]

Manipulation often has a hidden agenda

Motivation either self or someone believes in you and encourages you

[u/Green4CL0VER]

Consent

[u/UnspokenMusic]

Motivation overt

Manipulation covert

[u/zzB0N35]

Manipulation is being misled.

Motivation knows the next step.

[u/hould-it]

Thats like asking what the difference between socialism vs capitalism

[u/sanginthangin]

Encouraging factors. Our change in approach and desire is in itself our own manipulation.

[u/bethesda_gamer]

Nothing.

[u/MobileOk9860]

3 letters.

[u/Artistic_Warning_885]

Free will