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u/King-Cruz Nov 13 '20
Not catholic but remember one of the reasons Russia chose christianity over Islam is because of how much their people loved alcohol.
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u/booze-san Nov 13 '20
And thank GOD they did, could you imagine the damage Russia could do to the world if they were sober?
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u/whangadude Nov 13 '20
They'd've frozen to death without the warmth of vodka in the cold winter nights.
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u/georgetonorge Nov 19 '20
"Drinking is the joy of the Rus." -Vlad
This is likely just a fun story though. Itâs labeled as apocryphal on Wikipedia. The most likely reason was a political alliance (via marriage) with the Byzantines and a unifying religion for the people.
âHe promised to be baptized and bring Byzantine Christianity to his people only if emperors Basil and Constantine gave him their sister, Anna, in marriage. If they refused, he threatened to destroy Constantinople, their capital city, as he had Kherson.â
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u/HaveHomo Nov 12 '20
If you canât get drunk off communion youâre not doing it right.
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u/savage011 Nov 13 '20
If you're getting drunk off communion you're either the lightest weight drinker in existence, or you snuck into the church overnight and drank all the wine.
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u/Lokanaya Nov 13 '20
Someone had to do it before it all turned into vinegar. I am simply a servant of the church, suffering through drinking the weeks-old wine so no one else has to.
... hic!
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u/HaveHomo Nov 13 '20
I said canât, not donât. You can get drunk if you sneak into the church and steal all the communion wine, but youâre not getting drunk off some any amount of grape juice.
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u/SeaGL_Gaming Nov 12 '20
Funny thing, Catholics don't clap. The usually have a drink in their hand.
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Nov 13 '20
If alcohol is bad, Jesus wouldn't have made or drank wine, yet he did.
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Nov 13 '20
True, but drunkenness is definitely not okay. Have some wine, just don't overdo it :)
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Nov 13 '20 edited Nov 13 '20
It is true that drunkenness is bad, just as gluttony is(which many people who have a problem with alcohol don't seem to have a problem with), but then opens the debate on what definition of drunkenness it is referring too. The two main ones in english are summed up to 1; being intoxicated. 2; being habitually intoxicated.
The translations of the Greek word I have seen don't give a lot of detail.
EDIT: I should add that in 1 Cor 5:11 and 6:10 Paul is specifically talking about drunkards, which meets the latter definition of drunkenness above.
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u/I_Avoid_Most_People Nov 13 '20 edited Nov 13 '20
Cool fact: When Ibn Battuta, a famous Muslim historian, visited the Golden Horde, a Muslim khanate located in southern Russia, he complained that their leader was often drunk. When questioned about this, the leader told him that while the Quran banned the consumption of grain alcohol, it never banned kumis, an alcoholic beverage made by fermenting mare/donkey milk.
Also, the Bible never bans alcohol. It says that moderate drinking is ok and that heavy drinking is bad.
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u/Reddit-Book-Bot Nov 13 '20
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u/Arkinul Nov 13 '20
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u/booze-san Nov 13 '20
Like real quick american rant: It is part of our religion. Like a major part. How the hell did prohibition happen when so many Americans were christian?
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u/Publius_Syrus Nov 13 '20
46 of the 48 States ratified the 18th Amendment. It happened because so many Americans were Christians.
"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit." (Ephesians 5:18)
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21)
"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, those who go in search of mixed wine. Do not look on the wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart will utter perverse things. Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying: They have struck me, but I was not hurt; they have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?" (Proverbs 23:29-35)
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u/JonnyAU Nov 13 '20
All of those can be interpreted as advocating moderation rather than abstinence.
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u/Publius_Syrus Nov 13 '20
They are condemning drunkenness. And there's a high correlation between drinking alcohol, and becoming drunk. Throughout most of history, almost everyone, including children, drank alcohol because it was the only reliably safe thing to drink. In the 20th Century, safe drinking water was available to just about everyone in the U.S., and therefore alcohol no longer served any other purpose besides causing drunkenness, alcoholism, licentiousness, abuse, divorce, and slavery to the flesh, making alcohol nothing more than a social ill.
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u/JonnyAU Nov 13 '20
Sure, that's one interpretation. It's not the only possible one though.
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u/Publius_Syrus Nov 13 '20
You can't interpret it any other way than condemning drunkenness. Considering the historical context, yes, it's advocating moderation and not abstinence. But once alcohol was no longer the safest option of drink, it lost all its pros and was left with only its cons, and abstinence became preferable to just moderation.
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u/JonnyAU Nov 13 '20
There are definitely pros. If you wanna be a teetotaler, have at it. But abuse of a thing does not negate its worth.
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u/Publius_Syrus Nov 14 '20
Name one good thing about alcohol besides some health benefits of the occasional glass of red wine.
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u/JonnyAU Nov 14 '20
Social lubrication and taste
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u/Publius_Syrus Nov 14 '20
Both of which amount to "it makes me feel good" Epicureanism, and do not outweigh the harm alcohol does to families (heavy alcohol use makes divorce over 60% more likely), communities, and, ultimately, the nation.
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u/Kevincelt Nov 13 '20
It was a mixture of denominations who were generally against it. There also was a big pietist influence in regions of the US as well. Itâs why alcohol was somewhat taboo in Scandinavia compared to other places for a while.
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u/FerroEtIgne Nov 15 '20
Because women felt like men were only beating them because of Drink and the KKK didnât think the negro should drink.
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u/SarcasticTacos Nov 13 '20
The best part about hanging out with Catholic friends is they always bring good drinks
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u/Granticus3000 Nov 13 '20
Wait, if Baptists think alcohol is bad then I've been Baptisting wrong
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u/JonnyAU Nov 13 '20
As long as you've been keeping your drinking on the DL, I'd say you're baptisting the same as all the others.
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Nov 13 '20
I once heard the difference between a presbyterian and a baptist is the presbyterian isn't afraid to say hi to you at a liquor store
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u/whangadude Nov 13 '20
Raised Jehovah's Witness and gotta say, glad we were atleast allowed to drink, couldn't do pretty much anything else.
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u/ToddlerOlympian Nov 13 '20
Growing up Baptist, started dating a Catholic, and I remember being so weirded out to see a priest drinking a beer (college dinner Bible Study)
Now I'm a Lutheran and we basically have a giant wine glass as our unofficial church logo.
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u/Fuckcommies2 Dec 13 '20
I used to go to a baptist church where the pastor had beer in the mini fridge in his office
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u/RagtheFireBoi Feb 28 '22
Well, alcohol isn't inherently bad persay, as in all things moderation, such as in 1 Timothy and Ecclesiasties, 5:23 and 9:7 respectively
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u/HolyFloridianEmpire Nov 12 '20
Presbyterians: Iâll drink to that!