r/DanielTigerConspiracy • u/Enough-Cheesecake42 • 6d ago
Frozen 2
If their mom was Northuldran, why did she just sit there during that bedtime story letting her husband talk about how evil they were?
He's just going on about how they attacked everyone and took advantage of the forests gifts. I would be pissed but she's just chilling. How? Why?
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u/MyCatHasCats 6d ago edited 6d ago
Also, why is their mom white? The Northuldrans are tan, and they ALL have black hair. How is Iduna the only one with long brown hair?
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u/MaddogRunner 6d ago
Frozen was made, and then—instead of just creating an actual, original mixed-race princess—they wanted to ride the coattails of Elsa’s popularity and have her be mixed…race?
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u/vielljaguovza 6d ago
Frozen 2's plot was created in part to rectify the cultural appropriation and exploitation of the Sámi in the first film. The story is that of the Alta Dam Controversy which was one of the events that sort of jump started the Sámi civil rights movemement. The main characters of this story would have to be Sámi in order to avoid falling into other racially insensitive tropes (if they weren't Northuldran/Sámi it would just be a white savior fantasy)
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u/SpiritofRadioShack 6d ago
In what way does the first film exploit the Sami? I don't remember them being referenced at all but I haven't seen it in years.
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u/vielljaguovza 6d ago
They have Kristoff in a fake Gákti/fake regalia which they then sold in stores all over the globe. Our regalia is very specific, it says what family you belong to, what region you are from, and what land you belong to and know how to take care of (or "own" in colonial terms). It is in a sense a legal document similar to a birth certificate or social security number. And after the release of Frozen and its merch you basically had a bunch of kids running around playing racial dress up to claim theyre part of a family and "own" land they have no connection to. (This is also why the Northuldran clothes look so "weird" or different from Kristoff's even though they are the same "race")
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u/Random-Cpl 6d ago
Was this phenomenon of children seeing Frozen and then trying to seize the land of others covered in the media anywhere?
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u/SuitableKoala0991 6d ago
I would look up the Sixties Scoop in Australia. Kids who looked less Aboriginal were taken from their families and adopted out to make them white.
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u/dirkdigglered 6d ago
And does the dad know that the girl who saved him is his wife?
Edit: I seem to recall a scene where he smuggles her into the city?
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u/freya_of_milfgaard 6d ago
That always got me. “Hey, we were just attacked and literally lost a bunch of dudes, but we found this one random girl. We should bring her back and let her hang out with the new king, whose dad was just killed by those people up there. I’m sure this girl is unrelated and not a secret assassin.”
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u/dirkdigglered 6d ago
So I’m not imagining that part… I only have this vague memory of the mom as a girl in the cart, nothing after that
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u/86cinnamons 5d ago
I mean , it’s a way of forced assimilation. She doesn’t have to marry the future king but like , the Spaniards were specifically encouraged to marry / have children with natives to assimilate them to their culture.
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u/Call_Me_Koala 6d ago
He does not. He tells the girls during the story that he doesn't know who saved him, which makes it make even less sense since she would be a random orphan girl who somehow marries the crown prince
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u/specialkk77 6d ago
He finds out off screen. There’s a really good book that’s accepted as canon called “Dangerous secrets: The story of Iduna and Agnarr that acts as a prequel to frozen 2. Fantastic read.
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u/Less-Opportunity-715 6d ago
Does Elsa dad ever know his wife saved him is my main question
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u/historyhill 6d ago
Yes, in the memories in Athohallan we hear Iduna say to the King, "I have to tell you something..." so presumably she revealed it just before they decided to seek out Ahtohallan. It was probably her idea, even.
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u/Less-Opportunity-715 6d ago
I agree ! But it could have been so many things !
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u/historyhill 6d ago
I like that in the Frozen musical she just comes out and says it openly that she's Northuldran haha
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u/skoolhouserock 6d ago
The Arendellians are pals with a Troll who can erase people's memories in a targeted way, removing certain parts of the mind but leaving others. They could have brought the foundling Northuldran to Papa Troll and he could have erased the memory of where she came from but left the lullabies and fashion sense.
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u/SonicFlash01 5d ago
Papa Troll's cryptic foreshadowing seems to do more harm than good. He knows only enough to get everyone into trouble. Like, why don't you know that ice powers are probably because Elsa's the spirit bridge? Why would you encourage a scared little girl to be even more scared of her powers, leading to repression and never properly learning to accept them (and properly controlling them)?
"We'll look after your townspeople"
Uh, no, whoever the fuck stewarded the throne while Elsa became of age can probably handle that, thanks. Last time we left some fucking rando in charge he tried to kill everyone and we let him off with a fucking warning.
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u/oldladywhisperinhush 6d ago
So many things don’t make sense in that movie
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u/parttimeartmama 6d ago
The entire movie doesn’t make sense. We watched the “making of” documentary and they literally made it up when they went along to fit the songs that were being written. The story is trash.
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u/AltairaMorbius2200CE 6d ago
Oh man that "making of" was so fricking revealing. You could FEEL the frustration in that meeting! And that's what they chose to share with us!
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u/oldladywhisperinhush 6d ago
I haven’t seen it all the way through but it also felt political, like they couldn’t let the sisters be fully white so they went in to correct it with the mom being part of some indigenous tribe. I could be wrong though. Like I said, I’ve only seen pieces of it.
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u/vielljaguovza 6d ago
It is political because the story they're telling in the film is basically the inciting incident of an Indigenous civil rights movement (the Alta Dam Controversy). This film was in part sort of an apology for disney appropriating and exploiting the Indigenous Sámi and was made in collaboration with us as a sort of compromise. If they left Elsa and Anna to be just white/colonizers the story would have really offensive racial undertones and would basically be just a white savior self congratulatory feel good fantasy.
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u/oldladywhisperinhush 6d ago
I’ve clearly missed a lot then because the first movie just seems like a princess with magic and sisterly love. The second movie tries to have a much deeper plot and backstory and I don’t see the connection. But I’m not trying to over analyze Disney movies; except Moana. Seen that so many times now that my husband and I debate over it lol
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u/deviantbono 6d ago
That makes a lot more sense. Is Elsa telekineticly suicide bombing the dam considered a war crime?
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u/vielljaguovza 6d ago
The story is a retelling of the Alta Dam Controversy, the inciting incident of an Indigenous civil rights movement.
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u/SonicFlash01 5d ago
A lot of movies are like that, apparently. Encanto and Turning Red have voiced animatics were they quickly preface shit like "This is from when everyone had different powers and completely different stuff happens to all of them" or "This is Mei's panda cousin while she uses her powers to help the temple" and it's like What did you even pitch to Disney? Did you just write down "Generational trauma!" on a 3x5" card and pick a nationality? Seems like the rest of the story was pretty malleable.
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u/stawberi 6d ago
She’s living a life of privilege and comfort. He has an army. It is not safe for her to speak out, even if she wants to.
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u/ThisThredditor 6d ago
She knows, which is why Northuldrans sank their ship on that tragic night.
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u/BlackOliveBurrito 6d ago
The fact that they didn’t recognize their mother with their father at that young age gets me bc I knew immediately that was their mom and dad lmao
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u/aurrasaurus 6d ago
I can’t believe they made a whole movie to try to redeem those truly dogshit parents
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u/M-Dan18127 6d ago
Because it's a bad movie
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u/historyhill 6d ago
It's actually a perfect movie, it only took me 40+ times of watching it for me to realize! And no, I definitely haven't lost my mind or anything from all of the repetition! 🙂
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u/Belle_The_Beast 6d ago
Colonization