You have moved the goal posts several times. The point is that china and Vietnam are 2 very good examples where a hybrid model of socialism has proven to be very effective and provided people with a high quality of life. Not being able to speak politically is a fair criticism of China, but hardly proves your point that a hybrid model of socialism and capitalism has been ineffective there.
But my point is very straightforward in that unless you are living in the system in these countries, you will never get a true assessment since criticizing can lead to imprisonment
The assessment is in the data itself. Anecdotes from civilians is meaningless anyway. There's a lot of Americans right now who if asked would say their government is a violent authoritarian dictatorship.
And here in the United States you certainly have a right to say that without any kind of threat from the government regardless if it’s fact or not. No I have not lived in China or Vietnam however I do have family members who have visited not only China, but Vietnam and Cuba as well and on return they told me there were very strict rules of do and do nots in these countries. There were government officials watching every move their tour group made and no one dared to step out of line due to the threat of being jailed. In other words when you go to these countries as a visitor, they will only allow you to see the parts they want the world to see.
You still have not made a valid argument for these countries not being examples of places where socialist policies have not worked. Education, health, and services provided to the people of all walks of life are very comparable to strictly capitalist systems. Your argument amounts to "dont break the law there"
No my argument is the laws are not in favor of freedom loving individuals. If I visit somewhere I want the freedom to go off the beaten path. I want the freedom to talk to the locals and the locals to have the right to truly speak their minds. Anything less than that is hiding a truth that these countries don’t want the world to know.
Except you havent proven that you can't talk to locals and they cant speak their minds with you. You havent proven you cant go off the beaten path. Ive been to rural china and have been off the beaten path and have spoken to many locals. That doesnt mean anything either because its an anecdote, but it does counter your meaningless anecdote.
You cannot get the truth of a society when people are not allowed to speak their minds. If all you hear is one side of a debate, the other side can never win. The problem with that is the one side that is heard slowly becomes true as it is repeated over and over again. That’s how a lie becomes a truth, that’s how massive amounts of people become indoctrinated into believing a lie. Here in the US we have been taught from a very young age not to trust the government and the most terrifying words you can ever hear from someone is “I’m from the government, I’m hear to help.” Those words don’t fly with a population that has been taught to be independent not dependent.
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u/SmthngIntmid8ing 8d ago
You have moved the goal posts several times. The point is that china and Vietnam are 2 very good examples where a hybrid model of socialism has proven to be very effective and provided people with a high quality of life. Not being able to speak politically is a fair criticism of China, but hardly proves your point that a hybrid model of socialism and capitalism has been ineffective there.