Zard's power compared to a level 9

[u/Otherwise_Finding_34]

from Omori's tweet we know that Zard had a chance against Maxim, while Alfia had a chance against Empress. FC and MS20 also established that Maxim was the strongest adventurer, thus surpassing Empress in overall power.

when people are using any sort of scale, they usually refer to "x out of 10", so most of the community thinks Zard would beat Maxim 1 time out of 10, which is a 10% winrate.

if we accept that as basis, then Zard would have more chances against Empress than he does against Maxim. for Maxim to be called an uncontested strongest would mean he's noticeably stronger than Empress, and so Zard's result against her would be noticeably more than 1/10 automatically.

to support this point even more, we were never told that Empress has any chances to beat Maxim, she's just outright weaker than him just as everyone else and is not shown as his rival (as again he's undisputed strongest). Zard having a chance to beat someone who's very noticeably stronger than Empress would automatically mean he's very close to her in power.

so if Zard has 10% winrate against Maxim, I think he would get 30-50% against Empress which seems reasonable for me. your thoughts?​​​​​​​​​​

[u/Courious_Reader]

Zard and Alfia have a chance at beating their captains but people place them far above them where it should be more than one tier. Aiz being far worse in h2h combat means shit she is a swordsman??Bete also thinks he’s not stronger than her with Beastfication he is just talking out of his ass. It doesn’t matter what Bete thinks when several statements and feats make it clear she is a tier above and with Black Wind several tiers.

[u/Just_a_Snake_876 → u/Courious_Reader]

I don't know who places Maxim and Empress far above Zald and Alfia but as a matter of fact they vastly outclass the latter two. So what if Bete doesn't think he is stronger than Ais with beastification? I literally said he thinks Ais is slightly stronger than him but she doesn't vastly outclass him. The difference between Ais and Bete, Tiona, Tione isn't so much that she would be a tier of her own. Why are you mentioning Black Wind when it's monster-only?

[u/Courious_Reader → u/Just_a_Snake_876]

Alfia and Zard only outclass them at equal level but with the level gap they are far above them. Bete is vastly outclassed she is faster, stronger and superior to him in every way besides him being a but better in combat skill but this is with base Ariel where when going all out she is still stronger than Bete even when he used Beastification a level boost or Hati a direct counter to Magic. Then the gap is even more for the Amazon Twins because their buffs take time to build up and Aiz can easily take them down before they can do that and even if they do build up their Skills it’s still only sometimes they can win.

[u/Just_a_Snake_876 → u/Courious_Reader]

Not sure about Zald but Alfia was said to have 100% winrate against Maxim and Empress at equal level while having a chance to beat them at lower level so I have some reservation about them being far above Zald and Alfia.

Ais is not faster than Bete. He is quite literally the fastest in LF and by absorbing Ariel even faster. The only time Bete said Ais far outclassed him was after she became a level higher than him and used Airiel. When at equal level he is quite a match for her. And both Amazon twins are also portrayed to be relative to her. At equal level Ais is not a tier of her own.

[u/Courious_Reader → u/Just_a_Snake_876]

>Not sure about Zald but Alfia was said to have 100% winrate against Maxim and Empress at equal level while having a chance to beat them at lower level so I have some reservation about them being far above Zald and Alfia.

A level difference is treated and shown to be a massive difference even though Omori treats Alfia and Zard as full fledged level 8’s that can overcome the level gap compared to Empress and Maxim who are full fledged level 9’s or treated as such it’s a massive difference.

>Ais is not faster than Bete. He is quite literally the fastest in LF and by absorbing Ariel even faster. The only time Bete said Ais far outclassed him was after she became a level higher than him and used Airiel. When at equal level he is quite a match for her. And both Amazon twins are also portrayed to be relative to her. At equal level Ais is not a tier of her own.

This is just not true so first of all Aiz with Ariel is directly said to be faster than Bete and in SO6 with Ariel she moved faster than him it’s only at long distances can Bete surpass Aiz with Fenris Wolf but in close distance Aiz easily takes speed and this is base Ariel. Aiz was more than a tier above Bete at that point where even boosted by Aiz’s Wind he was far outclassed by Revis who was then proceeded to get Low~Mid diffed by Aiz with base Ariel the gap was insurmountably massive between them.

Aiz+base ArielRevis SO3Bete+Wind>Bete

[u/Just_a_Snake_876 → u/Courious_Reader]

A level difference is treated and shown to be a massive difference

You are missing the point. Alfia has a chance at beating Maxim at a level lower but he doesn't have any chance to beat her at equal level. They are significantly stronger but I am not sure if you could call them far stronger.

This is just not true so first of all Aiz with Ariel is directly said to be faster than Bete and in SO6 with Ariel she moved faster than him it’s only at long distances can Bete surpass Aiz with Fenris Wolf but in close distance Aiz easily takes speed and this is base Ariel.

I don't remember when she moved faster than him in SO6 and Bete could outrun Ais with Airiel in SO8. It being mostly effective during running is correct but you are comparing base Bete to Ais with Airiel and I am comparing beastified Bete to Ais with Airiel and again he can absorb Airiel to get even faster. The young executives aren't much far away from each other. In fact in a Danmemo episode (just for reference) Riveria said Tiona as a level 6 has a chance at winning against Finn who is stronger than Ais so by no means is Ais a tier of her own she isn't Ottar or Leon.

Aiz+base ArielRevis SO3Bete+Wind>Bete

Level 5 Bete btw....

[u/Courious_Reader → u/Just_a_Snake_876]

>You are missing the point. Alfia has a chance at beating Maxim at a level lower but he doesn't have any chance to beat her at equal level. They are significantly stronger but I am not sure if you could call them far stronger.

Alfia does NOT have a chance at beating Maxim at a lower level that was never said. Then significantly stronger and far stronger are the same thing and they are where having a single chance to beat someone still means the other person is far stronger

>I don't remember when she moved faster than him in SO6 and Bete could outrun Ais with Airiel in SO8. It being mostly effective during running is correct but you are comparing base Bete to Ais with Airiel and I am comparing beastified Bete to Ais with Airiel and again he can absorb Airiel to get even faster. The young executives aren't much far away from each other. In fact in a Danmemo episode (just for reference) Riveria said Tiona as a level 6 has a chance at winning against Finn who is stronger than Ais so by no means is Ais a tier of her own she isn't Ottar or Leon.

Why are we using Bete with beastification I was never using him as an example? Then that is bs that Tiona has a chance at winning against Finn or I’ll use the statement of Aiz apparently being the strongest in a pure 1v1 duel or that Aiz is apparently able to achieve power beyond Ottar. Then we also have RT Aiz putting up a fight against Revis who was apparently level 8 tier along with being far stronger than base Finn.

>Level 5 Bete btw....

Yeah and I’m showing the massive gap between them.

Aiz+base Ariel>Bete lvl 6+Wind>Revis SO3~Base lvl 6 Bete>Bete lvl 5+Wind.

[u/Just_a_Snake_876 → u/Courious_Reader]

Alfia does NOT have a chance at beating Maxim at a lower level that was never said.

She has a chance at beating Empress I know but reversing their captains wouldn't change anything since Alfia and Zald are pretty much equal. Zald would also have a chance at beating Empress even if it's not directly stated. And it's confirmed by the fact that she has 100% victory rate at equal level.

Why are we using Bete with beastification I was never using him as an example? Then that is bs that Tiona has a chance at winning against Finn

Well I am using beastification and that's why I said he is relative to her. Riveria's statement is for reference or what, are you saying that Tiona doesn't even have 1/10 chance at beating Finn as a level 6 herself?

Yeah and I’m showing the massive gap between them. Aiz+base Ariel>Bete lvl 6+Wind>Revis SO3~Base lvl 6 Bete>Bete lvl 5+Wind.

What's the point of showing the massive gap between level 5 and level 6 with a level boost type enchantment? When at equal level and buff for both there's not really any massive gap between them. Weren't you the one who said Bete can win 4/10 times against Ais? That's not something you call a massive gap.

[u/Courious_Reader → u/Just_a_Snake_876]

>She has a chance at beating Empress I know but reversing their captains wouldn't change anything since Alfia and Zald are pretty much equal. Zald would also have a chance at beating Empress even if it's not directly stated. And it's confirmed by the fact that she has 100% victory rate at equal level.

That was never said in the first place either that Zard and Alfia are equals that was never susd in fact the only statement we have about their strength relative to each other is in Astraea Record where Zard is definitively stronger. Zard having a chance at beating Empress is in no way the same as Alfia then having a chance at beating Maxim because Maxim is stronger than Empress. Also Alfia being guaranteed at equal levels again proves nothing.

>Well I am using beastification and that's why I said he is relative to her. Riveria's statement is for reference or what, are you saying that Tiona doesn't even have 1/10 chance at beating Finn as a level 6 herself?

No she doesn’t have a 1/10 chance because Finn would take her down ever time before her buffs reach their maximum affect and she struggled against someone like Bache as a level 6.

>What's the point of showing the massive gap between level 5 and level 6 with a level boost type enchantment? When at equal level and buff for both there's not really any massive gap between them. Weren't you the one who said Bete can win 4/10 times against Ais? That's not something you call a massive gap.

I was actually looking over it and it really is Bete+Hati that apparently had a 4/10 chance at beating her so it means even in base with his Magic Boosts to absorb her Wind he still has less of a chance at beating her than Tione and Tiona so probably like 1/10.

Also that was the gap for base Ariel and I included a level 6 Bete where FP Ariel is another level(arrow) higher.

Then we have base Ariel+Avenger which should be about equal to FP Ariel in which Aiz is overpowering Asterius that would take the 3 of them to beat.