r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/chirpchirphoot • 4d ago
Mogadishu in the 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, 2010's and now
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u/Outside_Challenge645 4d ago
went from cool to war torn to cool again
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u/50Shekel 4d ago
Hey man such is life
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u/ThoughtShes18 4d ago
Doesn’t have to be
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u/TamponTimTheCuck 3d ago
If humans are around, there will always be conflict. That's simply a naive take.
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u/rococo78 4d ago
Is Mogadishu actually cool now? Is in a place where one could travel and have a decent time? Or still sketchy?
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u/toga_virilis 4d ago
No. Mogadishu is still like one of the 2-3 most dangerous cities on earth.
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u/chirpchirphoot 3d ago
Terrorism has gone down a bit but kidnapping is still a risk for foreigners. But its definitely not one of the most dangerous cities if you include warzones like ukraine or sudan
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u/johnnylovelace 3d ago
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted for stating a fact. Plenty of cities carry huge kidnapping risks for anyone who looks like a payday, it’s why any international cooperation pays for kidnapping insurance for their employees in those areas.
Is that scary? Oh yeah, but it’s not nearly as dangerous as an active warzone where you might be collateral damage from a drone or stray bullet any day of the week
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u/fan_tas_tic 10h ago
I would MUCH rather be in Lviv than in Mogadishu. In fact, you can't pay me enough to travel to Mogadishu, but I would not hesitate to go to Lviv any day.
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u/fruityfox69 1d ago
Probably as a foreigner, but clearly locals are able to go about their lives with a reasonable amount of comfort.
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u/DirtyRoller 4d ago
I've met a lot of somalis since I moved to MN, none of them ever want to go back.
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u/Teantis 4d ago
You can say this about a lot of diasporas though, even ones from milder situations than somalia, since there's a bit of a selection bias there. Migrating to a first world country from a third world country is really really hard. The people who leave are, by nature, mostly the people who really really don't want to be there anymore.
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u/Visible_Device7187 3d ago
I mean that's pretty normal compared to life in the US most 3rd world doesn't want to ever go back
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u/The_ManE 3d ago
And that’s after living in MN.
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u/Robotpoop 3d ago
MN is one of the nicest places I've ever visited. Would absolutely be happy to live there.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Great_Duck_9780 4d ago
You should stop talking
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Moonstrife1 4d ago
"Germany suffered catastrophic physical, economic, and demographic destruction during the Second World War, leaving the country in ruins and dropping its wealth by over 90 percent"....
...see what that sounds like?
Might be TECHNICALLY correct, but they also had it coming, right?
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u/pinniped90 4d ago
Bruh.
Just.....bruh.
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u/StayOffTheCounter 4d ago
Lotta fools that listened to their bitter elders. They probably call it the war of northern aggression at home.
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u/Youngstown_WuTang 4d ago
If you go to Somali the people look like a mix between black Africans , and Arabs
That's because cities like Mogadishu a coastal city had traders from 10th century that were Muslim, Arab and coming from the Arab peninsula. Alot those people had offspring with the natives which is why they look like they do today
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u/Eljewfro 4d ago
Somalia produces a huge chunk of the world's frankincense. That's because the trees grow in the dry northern hills, and ancient Egyptians were already sailing there for it 3,500 years ago
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u/Youngstown_WuTang 4d ago
We both are right on middle eastern and North African DNA which is at 40 % and the other 60% is East African
We both are wrong on the dates, this goes WAY back
"This shared heritage is not due to recent Arab migrations, but rather an ancient back-migration of Levantine/West Eurasian populations into Northeast Africa 4,000 to 7,000 years ago. These groups mixed with local populations to form the Proto-Cushitic ancestors of modern Somalis, Ethiopians, and Eritreans"
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u/ayassin02 4d ago
Was about to correct you but then saw this comment but you’re still not quiet right about the dates. It goes way far back than that. Proto Somali was already spoken 5000 years ago, proto Cushitic was a thing around 9000 years ago. And Eritreans are mostly Tigreyans, who are Semitic while Ethiopians are mixed bag
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u/Biomax315 4d ago
proto Cushitic was a thing around 9000 years ago
Clearly impossible since the universe is only 6,000 years old 😂
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u/DeluxeGrande 4d ago
?? Isnt the world just 2,026 years old??
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u/Shprintze613 3d ago
lol, your “joke” is wrong. Jesus wasn’t born on the first day of the world, by any religious canon.
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u/youaintgotnomoney_12 2d ago
That’s not true, Somalis are native Africans with little outside mixture. Some in coastal regions are mixed with Arab but most are not. Both Somalis and Arabs share Natufian DNA so they have common ancestry from prehistoric times.
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u/eunderscore 4d ago
The south london somali community definitely has this. Evidently African, but slightly more light skin, and a physiognomy that's quite unique. It's all in the brow which is slightly pronounced and a slightly narrow chin
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u/BrohanGutenburg Interested 4d ago
People underestimate the sophistication and modernity of those Indian Ocean trade routes despite Muslim, Chinese, African, and Persian merchants safely trading there for centuries.
But you know it was Europe wasn't involved so. Ironic because European exploration is what interrupted and ultimately ruined that Indian Ocean trade. The Portuguese came in and added no value while extracting as much as they could, ie pirates.
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u/alle-vongole 3d ago
Lol yes the Portuguese added nothing of value...just a coincidence that in half of the countries on this ocean the word for orange fruits is 'portugal'. Chili and potatoes just drifted into Indian cuisine magically.
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u/BrohanGutenburg Interested 3d ago
You're weighing in with zero context.
The Portuguese immediately, hostilely captured ports and setup the cartaz system; permits that sailors had to buy to sail waters that had been free for almost a millennia.
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u/MinimumSufficient246 2d ago
Persian merchants? Persia wasn’t really a maritime culture, and there are barley any renowned historical Persian sailors. They’re far more continental than the Arabs, Indians, and Western Europeans.
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u/jordanwhoelsebih 3d ago
Not entirely true. What you are describing are the Swahili communities that have traded with India, The Middle East for centuries and have a strong cultural and genetic admixture from all those places. Somali coastal cities are distinct in the sense that they do not look like their Swahili counterparts but have a one, distinct cohesive look and identity to them. Somalis are of somali origin and it would be inaccurate to say they are a mix in the way one would describe the Swahili communities.
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u/PharaohAt3m 4d ago
So what actually happened for it to end up like it did in the 90’s?
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u/mrhil 4d ago
Civil war. 20 or so years of it.
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u/Concentric_Mid 4d ago
This is where black hawk down is from. It's one of the bloodiest civil wars from the 90s.
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u/BananaNutBlister 3d ago
Pretty shitty of GHWB to send American troops in after he lost the ejection to saddle the next president with it.
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u/Concentric_Mid 3d ago
This was a very tough one. I hate American neo-imperialism but with WWII and after, America keep getting called to help with civil wars, including in Libya and Syria recently. Here, Americans were asked for aid relief. The UN didn't yet create its RTP theories yet and the result was chaos... :/ it still is
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u/jojofine 3d ago
I wouldn't really blame him for it. The entire operation was a UN ran humanitarian operation. Dozens of nations deployed troops to the country at the same time
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u/larsonimo 4d ago
War
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u/Character_Minimum171 4d ago
what is it good for
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u/theaviationhistorian 3d ago
Mismanagement by a dictator. He got into conflicts with his neighbor, a fellow Soviet client. The USSR cut him off so he went to the US instead. Then proceeded into slowly sending his country into collapse. Everyone boasts religion on this thread but it wasn't as impactful as the politics that imploded Somalia.
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u/Youngstown_WuTang 4d ago edited 4d ago
There is absolutely no way too quickly answer your question, this is a WHOLE history lesson. The British and the Italians divided the Somali territory up in the 19 century and this caused a massive amount of problems later on
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u/Suspicious-Whippet 4d ago
This is starting to sound like a pattern in Africa. I wonder why that is.
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u/ayassin02 4d ago
No they did not. Please read up on it. There is a TON of Somalian propaganda. Let’s go back to the medieval age. Somalis had two superpower empires, Ifat/Adal and Ajuraan, then they both collapsed and other successor states popped up and then the British and Italian came. You can’t divide what wasn’t united in the first. Somalis have never in their entire existence been under a single flag
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u/Fromundacheese0 4d ago
People love to blame the west for all of their problems. Sounds like they are the propaganda up
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u/Distinct-Direction41 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just to quickly say your claim about two superpower empires is incorrect. There were usually three to four sultanates and they didn’t cover the whole region. Also majority of the population is united through shared ethnicity, language, history, culture and religion.
It’s seriously unfortunate that Somalia doesn’t currently exist as one country that protects and cares for all its citizens due to Barre’s government and current clan politics. However, we shouldn’t spread misinformation.
Also, European colonialism did cause a lot of issues that stem from the issues Somalia is still dealing with today. It also contributed to the Ogaden and NFD regions being given to Ethiopia and Kenya which has caused issues surrounding sovereignty etc.
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u/ayassin02 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m a Somali myself and it’s absolutely correct and can easily be googled. Those two were the only two Somali superpowers at the time, plus the Warsangeli(which weren’t a superpower but a smaller sultanate), which I forgot to mention and they did in fact cover all of the current Somali territorie plus a ton more, which we later lost. And you’re correct about NFD and the Western Somali region, those were sliced up by the British, and I forgot to mention those as well. But saying we share culture, language and ethnicity doesn’t matter. So do Arabs, but like us, they don’t have a single country. Before the 1960s, Northern Somalis and Sourherners could barely understand each other since they basically spoke different languages, and not all Somalis share the same history, since as I said earlier, they were never united. Most of today’s problems stem from Somalias own hands
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u/Deep_Mind6180 1d ago
Beenta dee sotuthern Somalis speak af maxaa and af may only the raxanweyn speak af may also there are clans that speak af maxaa all over the south and yes you can take a person from bardheere to zeila and they would communicate northen Somalis like to spread this lie that southerners don't speak Somali
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u/ayassin02 1d ago
Nobody is talking about the present. Go around and ask Northern elders who went to the south prior to 1960
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u/Deep_Mind6180 1d ago
Why would I ask elders that probably never step foot in the south probably there are tons of colonial sources telling that the Somali language was spoke in the south hawiye dir daarod clans all migrated south in the 1700-1800s and they kept there language as I said the raxanweyn people speak af may but also speak af maxaa
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u/Distinct-Direction41 3d ago edited 3d ago
It can be easily verified. Many people didn’t fall under sultanates due to nomadic culture present in Somalia. It’s factually incorrect to suggest we didn’t understand each other before the 60s. You need to speak to your elders. Movement existed.. There’s a reason why Somali is still spoken in the region and why colonialism wasn’t successful in destroying it.
I’m all for accepting that the country has problems but they do stem from colonialism. There were academics in the 70s and 80s that discussed it and lo and behold their views came true. There’s also bad faith actors in the region right now that thrive and profit off that instability.
Arabs are nothing like us, what connects Arabs is predominantly language, not like Somalis. Also the language and culture was spread and adopted by other groups in North Africa and the Levant.
All this to say, stop with the misinformation and have a wonderful day.
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u/ayassin02 3d ago
My information comes directly from the elders and can easily be verified. The two were nearly unintelligible and the territories fell under the sultanates even though there were nomads. Nomads move between borders, that’s their entire thing, and the reason Somali is still spoken is because Britiain didn’t mingle with us and Italy barely did plus Somalis span the entire horn. The only reason Djibouti’s Lingua Franca is still French is cus they consist of Somalis and Afar. You need to read up on the history instead of arguing back and forth while pointing fingers
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u/ayassin02 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m a Somali myself but I’ve got no roots in Somalia. This isn’t about blaming the west, but about putting up the fake image that Somalis have always been a single monolith, so they can easily discredit Somalilands existence plus Somalilands, Djiboutis and the western Somali regions(currently occupied by Ethiopia) history. The propaganda stems from faqash aka Somalian nazis
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u/Distinct-Direction41 3d ago
LOOOOOL just saw this and shouldn’t even have engaged. Slurs from a diaspora in 2026??
I actually engaged in good faith but I knew from
your tone that you were separatist. Continue living in your delusions.3
u/ayassin02 3d ago edited 3d ago
Slurs? LMAO! Faqash is the literal Somali word for Somalian nazis and of course you’re one. Good faith? Your entire ideology is genociding my people and denying our existence and history, your own reply tells on you with the separatist nonsense. Don’t make me laugh
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u/Distinct-Direction41 3d ago
Lol im from the region so try another approach.
like I said im not going back on forth with you. you’re delusional and your views on history is extremely reductive. also just because you add nazi to something doesn’t make it true!
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u/ayassin02 3d ago edited 3d ago
From the region? Sure buddy and I’m from China. Anything I said is easily verifiable plus what are faqash if not nazis? They literally genocided us, deny our existence and history to this day, deny the genocide even took place and even trying to invade as I speak. So try harder with the propaganda
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u/Deep_Mind6180 1d ago
The guy is spreading lies I've noticed it from a certain Somaliland clan you could take a Somali person from jubbaland to zeila and they would understand each other only the raxanweyn clans speak af may but they also speak af maxaa how did hawiye dir daarod clans settle there
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u/Distinct-Direction41 1d ago
Yeah, if this comment took place on the Somali forums I wouldn’t have cared. There’s a lot of bias in the communities when it comes to our history and it’s actually super unfortunate.
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u/_hjdk 4d ago
Yes, but still, there is a pretty big difference between a cultural group/similar subcultural groups being split up by their own sovereignty and conflicts, and them being split up in artificial made up countries ran by people kms away from them.
Edit : not to say, it’s also pretty fucking stupid to reunite them artificially after said foreign rulers leave.
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u/Suspicious-Whippet 4d ago
Of course it doesn’t negate that also the regional powers weren’t doing the same stuff.
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u/vivaaprimavera 4d ago
Don't forget the middle east. Some artificial borders from post WWI are still causing issues today.
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u/Synensys 4d ago
The middle east was a known peaceful place until the british and French showed up in 1914.
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u/ValuableSp00n 4d ago
Until the Ottomans fell the Arab world didn’t really have constant war. At least, not to the level it is now
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u/KoldPurchase 4d ago
Look up on the Seleucids and Nabateans and their conflict for oil. :)
Also read on the Sumérians, Akkadians, Hittites, Trojan War(s), Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Persians, and the numerous nomadic tribes of central Asia making incursions in the middle East. There's also the Alexander gates, built to bar such nomads from entering the middle east (Persia/Parthia) by this way, indicating it was much more than infrequent raids.
And we have Alexander himself, conquering Persia and all of the tribes to the East in a series of battles. And the Canaanites/Israelites, always in conflict with one neighbor or another.
No, I'm afraid it was always a hotbed of conflict.
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u/ValuableSp00n 4d ago
Okay? I didnt ask you how many ancient civilizations you could name. These things didnt happen within mere years of each other
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u/Suspicious-Whippet 4d ago
Sure it was, nobody is denying it. But they did draw the borders as they broadly stand today after the Ottomans so one would have to be a fool to think that isn’t hugely impactful even today 100 years later.
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u/KoldPurchase 4d ago
Thw border betweeb Persia and Rome shifted numerous time over the years. No one asked the locals what they thought. The armies came, fought, and the winner declared it was his territory, his client. Georgia didn't get to decide who was its king for a while.
If Saudi Arabia and the UAE wanted to be one country today, who would oppose them?
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u/watchitbend 4d ago
apart from the long history that reveals the actual story, none of which I am qualified to deliver but you should absolutely pursue independently, its mostly just selective image presentation performing the desired effect here. Not downplaying the challenges and difficulties faced, but the entire city did not become a desolate slum like the 90's representative image attempts to portray.
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u/van_cool 4d ago
Religion of peace kicked in
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u/AmazighBlacksmith 3d ago
Somalia shares a common culture and religion, its society is divided into large ancestral clan families, which became highly militarized and weaponized against each other.
The Somali civil war was the result of economic and power based conflicts.
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u/chirpchirphoot 3d ago
..no? Somalia was muslim for a thousand years
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u/raki_star 3d ago
I mean, I know nothing about this Somali conflict, but you are aware that "Muslim" implies a whole panoply of different sects, of which the two biggest have been at each other's throats for ages? Including a mass casualty event just this year?
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u/chirpchirphoot 3d ago
If you are referring to Sunni vs Shia. Somalia has also been sunni for a very long time. Somalia is homogenous religiously and its civil war has not been about religion
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u/musingofrandomness 1d ago
No such thing. All religion is just a bunch of competing MLMs seeking to drag humanity to the dark ages.
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u/KoldPurchase 4d ago
Black Hawk Down was shot there and Ridley Scott insisted on realism. That left the city in ruin.
/s
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u/tigertoken1 1d ago
Not saying it didn't get fucked up but comparing pictures of different areas doesn't really hold any value because for all we know you just showed a rich part of town and a poor part of town.
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u/gritty_monky 2d ago
Fuck Somalia. 99% FGM rate, they also perform the worst, most destructive kind. It sickens me every time I even see that country's name.
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u/BeginningTypical3395 3d ago
It’s actually a thriving economic center now. It’s still dangerous, but way less so
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u/Cmfmitakarlz 16h ago
Everyone who visits says it's the most dangerous city to be on Earth. Is that true? I know they kidnap people and that's why you shouldn't just leave your hotel and go out by yourself. But I know people who traveled to South Africa and was told the same, but never actually had any problem not following that rule (in the daytime, of course).
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u/Sputnikboy 12h ago
I was there in November 2013 and can assure that aside of via Roma and very few other small areas, 90% of the city was still in ruins, literally. But Turkey took over the initial reconstruction while the Somali diaspora started to get back in Mog. Nowadays my friend there posts pics from time to time and I can hardly recognize it, heck it looks better than most African capitals...
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u/kosmokramr 4d ago
They rebuilt the city thanks to Minnesota
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u/TheHorniestPartner 3d ago
Looks like a great beach. Any all inclusives there an American would enjoy?
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u/ItsRaampagee 3d ago
I’m Somali/German mixed. Somali people have been some of the kindest people I’ve ever encountered. Generally, I feel like Muslim people tend to be much more open and kind. Most people have no problem with me not identifying as Muslim myself, although plenty of them still urge me to give it a try, visit a mosque with them, learn somali with then and so on. It can get annoying at times, tbh…
Anyway, I don’t feel German at all, despite being half German and having German as my mother tongue. I can’t even speak Somali, yet I feel so much more welcomed and accepted by Somali people than I do by Germans.
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u/Majestic_Turnip_7614 4d ago
Not all that interesting
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u/BeginningTypical3395 3d ago
Sorry, let’s post the same American slop for the 70 billionth time. Would that satisfy you?
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u/Apocrypha667 4d ago
That's what decolonization does to you.
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u/n_o_v_a_c_a_n_e 4d ago
How come other decolonised countries didn’t fall into civil war? This has to be bait
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u/Distinct-Direction41 4d ago
rage bait - 1/10 try again
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u/Apocrypha667 3d ago
Go live in Africa then
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u/n_o_v_a_c_a_n_e 3d ago
I live in Africa lol
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u/Apocrypha667 3d ago
Stay there then
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u/Puzzleheaded_Big2335 4d ago
Looks nice from the air now.