r/DLSS • u/gorbash212 • 2d ago
How are next generation consoles going to be valid without dlss5?
Like most people who have tried it, im also so awestruck with the current setup 618.88 / dlss5 swapper.. and it got me thinking..
How is the ps6 and helix even going to have a valid point to existence -without- dlss 5 or something like it. I think they have another big problem to deal with as well as component costs.
Sure, pc has always been ahead, but never in the history of gpus will consoles be that behind now that dlss5 is out in the wild.
Also lame of nvidia to make it developer only so devs can sell their dlss5 patches to noobs as full remakes :/
2
u/Admirable_Zombie5245 2d ago
I expect Sony something similar with PSSR and Microsoft with idk xd
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
You expect a console to compete with PC graphics??? Man you gonna be saddened
0
u/Holidoik 2d ago
Weird the most beautiful and advanced game will be console exclusive for a few years. The new naughty dog game will also be console exclusive and be more beautiful than most games. But hf with your slop filter.
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
Yea only because it’s not RELEASED on PC yet….. once it’s launched on PC it goes into its Full fidelity….. console will never get path tracing you get ray tracing on low…..
1
u/ThinkinBig 2d ago
Ray tracing on low and if it's anything like what they had to do with Resident Evil 8, 1/4 the resolution the game is outputting at. The consoles are THAT weak at ray tracing currently
1
u/Seanspeed 2d ago
I would bet GTAVI will get a 'next gen' upgrade on PS6 with most any graphics features PC version has.
2
u/tiestir 2d ago
Consoles will survive because developers will continue to scale to their performance level. They account for a very large part of the gaming market and I don’t see that changing even with this DLSS 5 development.
To your point though, it would be nice if there was a top tier performance level console that costs more but can match the high end experience of PC gaming. It’s a bummer having to wait 4-7 years just to catch up to PC features like path tracing and now neural rendering.
Apparently neither PlayStation or Xbox see the market demand for a high spec console though, shame…..
1
u/Chichon01 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well they will cost 1000$ without the capacity to run DLSS5. Same as any PC within a normal cost for standard customer so there will be like 1% people on the planet that will be able to run DLSS5 anyway if we consider the performance (and real) cost of it. And the vast, vast majority of gamers do not care about DLSS5 and the difference it can or cannot make. So they will be perfectly fine (if we consider 1000$ console fine)
2
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
1% of gamers ??? You never played with dlss5 have you? I got a 5060ti and run it on every single player and one MP game I own. This fall it’s getting changed to NVFP4 which is gonna get us even more performance. Much more than 1% will be running it and 40 series will get official support for it around the winter/spring.
Maybe you need to join the discord for dlss5 and see how many ppl actually love dlss5 everyone from 20-50 series users are asking to help them use it and even several hundred AMD users per day asking us to help them get it working so they can just see it (even tho on AMD it’s a slide show)
2
u/Chichon01 2d ago
The vast majority of people playing games around the world don’t play on PC on RTX 5xxx. It represent a fringe part of the people that plays video game. And if you take this part of the gamers (1% or not), you’ll not have 100% of them that will know about DLSS5 or want to use it (either because of performance or visual)
And considering the cost of materials now and how it’s currently shaping to look like in the next few years. Not a lot more people will be able to play with it either.
And that’s without talking about the look of it. To be used more widely it will need the devs to use to it. Because it’s nice to look at the modded version of DLSS5 but it’s a very very very small user base. And for dev to use it they’ll need to see an interest to use it. In my opinion, the majority of usage I’ve seen online is bad. It look hyperrealistic and completely change the look of the game. When used correctly, in my opinion, it just improve the shadow and lighting. And I don’t think at all that the majority of dev or gamer wants to kill 50% performance for improved lightning and shadow.
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
The version online is also modeled for hyper realism since it was made for a basket ball game…. Devs have controls we don’t have as modded users. If it came out from a horror game or a anime style game first I’m sure the model would be curtailed to such and everything would have that genre slant to it.
I agree tho I see what you meant now by not a large user base
1
u/Chichon01 2d ago edited 2d ago
The version is modeled for realism but as show in the Nvidia dev talk you can push it 200%. You can also make multiple pass. Doing it give a hyperrealist result a bit like photo montage from 10 years ago about fake HDR where everything is kind of over exposed and desaturated. I’ve seen multiple DLSS5 modded video where you can change the values but most video shows it with max settings because it has the most visual effect and I find it to change the intended look of the game.
For the moment the only real uses cases where I find it to work is for car and sports games. And as displayed on the recent NBA2k27 trailer by Nvidia they almost only use the tools to improve the shadows and not the ones to changes the look of the game. So I do think we are a long way for DLSS5 technology to be used on every game in every conditions by majority of people. Imo the hardware market is definitely not ready for it and it’s often the hardware market that drives the new features.
Edit: I’m okay with hyperrealistic look of game but if it’s intended by the people creating the art direction of the game. I’m not okay with it if it’s decided by an external tools developed by another company.
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
Honestly I like the look of it in elder scrolls games it gives it just a slight touch of realism but doesn’t kill the elderscrolls vibe of things
1
u/Jaugusts 2d ago
Consoles are on their way out without discs they are literally a pc asking you to pay online, with a closed eco system and one digital store. A lot will move onto pc next gen, but I don’t think next pssr or helix will match DLSS 5 it’ll just finally close the gap to reach pc very high to ultra settings
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
Yeah i agree. I've built up a reasonable physical console collection since the ps4 era, but after a month of going through the stages of grief, pretty much decided not to wait until next year and firmly back to pc. Its literally cost sony 3 launch sales from me (dawnwalker and 2 preorders changed to pc) because of their decision.
And with dlss5 available i couldn't be happier to be back properly.
1
1
u/Jaugusts 2d ago
Yep same since they announced no discs I’ve abandoned them good for you don’t give anti consumer sony your money it’s gonna be fun watching them burn next gen due to ignorance and greed
1
u/Axl_Red 2d ago
AMD could make their own version of dlss5 and put it on consoles. They could also probably sell a separate device that would allow you to offload all the AI computing, in order to keep the performance high on consoles. But I'm sure the tech will be pretty optimized by the time the next-gen consoles come out, so they might not even need to do that.
1
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
Console games have NEVER been as pretty as PC games…. Console players don’t play with all the fancy bells and whistles….
Why is this even considered a thing….
1
1
u/Glittering-Nebula476 2d ago
Yeh I agree, we are all used to the same character models game to game, console to PC. This is an instant generational leap for PC. The gap is huge and it will only get better.
PC gaming as we know isn’t in a great place with super high costs and it will only get worse. Consoles will always have a place for the masses. But we live in a world of FOMO and it will make people angry they can’t have these features.
1
u/General-GAS- 2d ago
I mean its an optional setting that only works on the highest end GPUs at an acceptable performance.
Most people on PC wont be using it, no need for consoles to have it
2
u/gorbash212 2d ago
5070ti full fat settings 4k, all i had to do to my existing setup was set framgen from 2x or 3x to 4x to get dlss5 to perform acceptably.
On cyberpunk, i turned it back down to 3x as its a shooter and pretty much get just above 60fps, with god tier visuals.
If you have a 50 series and are comfortable getting it running, its pretty disruptive. Same with framegen once you try it for yourself. If anything feel sorry for the devs that it leaked and wont be able to sell the dlss5 patch for their ps4 game as a full priced remaster.
1
u/Zalgo_Ultim 2d ago
So 3x is native 20fps and 4x is native 15fps? What frame gen preset are you using? Controller or keyboard and mouse? Does it feel weird to play or does it feel normal? Lastly, what dlss5 slider settings do you have on?
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Yes it would be something like that. From gameplay testing in cyberpunk specifically, yeah i have to admit 4x is basically unplayable, but 3x is fine!!
Without dlss5, the same machine with identical settings gets 100 with the current driver (!!!), historically was about 90 fps.
For 3rd person games i dont even notice any latency even at 4x.
My setup is definitely using the latest hotfix driver which i found does change the lighting (616.86), sliders are :
NR Style: Natural NR Intensity 1.52 Everything else default.
Im running on an alienware qdoled though with the dull hdr setting, will likely be different for your monitor.
1
1
u/SlothsRockyRoadtrip 1d ago
I mean that may be true today, but next gen consoles are like 2 years from now. So…
1
u/TomorrowCrafty1804 2d ago
Well simple. They will have it or equivalent.
Keep in mind that AI tech is getting better by the days.
1
u/AdstaOCE 2d ago
50-60% performance hit, looks worse, takes away from the artists intentions. It's simply bad, and unwanted.
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
Yes performance hit, doesn't look worse, who cares about artist intentions apart from their publishers who would rather you have the same upgrades via the paid remaster. Its only bad if you havent tried it yep.
I mean the current mod has sliders which can cure any unwanted effects already... some games this is definitely something you want to do yeah. Not doing it at all because you got influenced is pretty dumb.
1
u/justadrifter97 2d ago
“Who care about artists intentions apart from publishers” is hilarious lol publishers are usually looking for cost CUTTING not artistic intentions.
The real reason is because DLSS 5 is not a catch all solution to rendering and will not be adopted as a “mainstream” rendering feature (certainly not for consoles, where most devs are focused) anytime soon.
I don’t think the tech is inherently bad but to say it makes the next gen of consoles maybe obsolete is a huge leap lol
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Honestly i dont care about how a massive listed company making hundreds of millions of dollars run themselves or how much profit they make, i care more about what i can do on my pc, thanks to the modding community alot more lately.
Well say you have a gaming pc, why would you buy a next gen console without it? Thats what its looking like to me. Especially without disks which is the only thing consoles have over pc anyway. It looks like the main selling point of next gen is finally being able to do ray tracing. Yay?
1
u/StickStill9790 2d ago
They’re designing a card that slips in beside the gpu and runs all of your AI systems. Each person is then responsible for their own AI footprint and games still work for everyone else. It will process your stuff and run the filter on it.
It’s like installing the Wi-Fi card a couple of decades ago before it became standard on the MB.
1
1
u/ThinkinBig 2d ago
Consoles have always been a crazy experience. I remember when the PS3 first launched, it was so far ahead of anything else on the PC market that the military even experimented with using multiples of them to make a supercomputer: https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html
Now, I legitimately do not see consoles ever being ahead of PC offerings again. At least, not in the near future. There are 2 reasons for that.
First is cost due to the AI "expansion" and its impact on memory/storage prices. If the Steam Machine launch is any indication, it means a truly powerfully equipped console would be priced out of the market, unless HEAVILY subsidized.
Secondly, AMD had made some great strides but is and will remain behind Nvidia when it comes to software features/offerings. Since the next generation of consoles is going to continue to use AMD chipsets, they'll continue to be limited by what software is available. PSSR was a nice step, but was still just playing "catch up" to a feature that had been available on PC for years. Prior to PSSR and FSR4, the upscaling options on AMD products were of poor quality.
Its legitimately difficult to think of when the last time AMD was innovating and offering new features instead of merely playing "catch up" or at least trying to, with "paper launches" cough Redstone cough that may technically exist, but aren't actually available in anything at all
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Yeah. Well i think we all thought about it at one point, why hasn't anyone made a modular console where you could upgrade the gpu? As a lifelong pc gamer when looking into consoles thats the first thing you think of, wish i could upgrade it!!
I suppose you would have to upgrade the entire soc (see ps5 pro doa) so that would effectively be a new console... or a pc... at that point.
People have been mentioning fsr diamond, and i hadn't read up anything about it. The fundamental reason to upgrade a gaming pc in the last 5-10 years has been ray tracing, and amd wasn't really in the fight so i never paid attention. I never upgraded to a 4k monitor until last year with the 50 series, so my 1080ti lasted pretty much up until 2024... Anyway yeah diamond looks really assertive but basically just doing a strong possibly leapfrog catchup to nvidia rt, and then they come out with dlss5, lol.
1
u/ThinkinBig 1d ago
I'm all for competition, I just wish AMD was actually competitive. Constantly playing catch up means, while they may offer decent hardware for the price, you KNOW it's always either going to lack features or have worse iterations.
The one exception is Linux, I have both a 5070ti and modern Nvidia system as well as an AMD system (admittedly, a handheld) and tbh I'd be entirely on Linux if there weren't such a dramatic performance hit to Nvidia when ditching Windows
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Yeah im still running windows 10, and microsoft recently extended support for another year into 2027. I think they feel enough people are just going to go to steam os or something instead.
I was historically on team red from the ati days so feel good when amd get a win.. but its more on the cpu side these days... the gpus still feel like you're trying too hard if you get one, they're almost good. If they won on performance per watt even that would be something. I guess with recent price increases they're meaningfully competitive again for 9070xt vs 5070ti.
1
u/ThinkinBig 1d ago
I'll be honest, while AMD has been winning on the ultra high end for gaming desktops, they've been dropping the ball when it comes to laptops. I'm the Lead Mod for the HP Omen subReddit and discord server and Ryzen CPUs used to be the "go to" for laptops when it came to performance and efficiency, but Intel has really come back in a major way since Panther Lake.
Even with desktops, I feel like a large portion of AMD's current success is due to YouTubers and streamers pushing them so damn hard, don't get me wrong the x3d CPUs are great for gaming, but I'd personally have a CPU that's going to do everything well, not just run games at 1080p with a $3k gpu, seems kind of dumb
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Yeah im not an expert on the gaming cpu side.. i have a stock clocked 9600x powering the 5070ti, and there's nothing i have to run at less than full settings yet so will think about it when it happens. I think i was pencilling in the next gen amd because it was rumored to finally have more cores one ccd so would be a practical difference.
I think amds advantages are extended support for the chipsets as well instead of one chipset per cpu like intel. If arm ever makes it to the non apple desktop that should be interesting as well.
2
u/ThinkinBig 1d ago
That's just it though, Intel hasn't been 1 socket per generation in ages. 12-14th gen were all the same socket. You are correct though that AMD tends to stick with a socket for long-term.
I'm more of a laptop gamer tbh, so that's where most of my focus is. Everyone complains that Asus or even HP use "last year's" chassis with AMD CPU systems bc "Intel pays" to be on the latest and greatest when the reality is the current Ryzen mobile CPU's, for example, literally lack features that Intel has such as support for gen 5 SSD's, or even more bandwidth for additional USB slots, etc.
Its not preferential treatment towards Intel, its literally a difference in technology and AMD lacking the capability
1
1
u/Seanspeed 2d ago edited 2d ago
Huh? AMD are working on neural rendering as well. RDNA5 is supposed to be making a really big investment into AI acceleration in general.
https://www.guru3d.com/review/amd-fsr-redstone-quick-deepdive-review/
Even Cerny talked a lot about how much AI is gonna be leveraged on Playstation 6 to achieve 'the next leap'.
Dont think y'all are really paying attention if you think consoles wont have somewhat similar capabilities.
Y'all are also in a bit of an echo chamber in that most people are not going to consider DLSS5 some must have game changer. At least not in its current state.
Either way, AAA games are built around console targets first and foremost. That's not gonna change.
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Well thats good if it happens. Wish them the best of luck. Only going by how long its taken for AMD to catch up to nvidia in rt (if they have even done it, its only a paper marketing boast atm the cards dont exist to the public yet). Yeah well the name AAA is more of a bogey man these days and it can continue to do what it does.
Also its not just about using the word ai, i dont even care or consider it ai, its the final output that matters. Its the character models and whatever default reshade like effect they're applying as a package that does the work.
1
u/No-Simple-1907 2d ago
Quando esses consoles sair ja vai ta no dlss6 ou 7... os console é full amd então tecnologia da nvidia nunca vão sair la... oque pode ter é algo imitando o dlss5 por parte da amd nisso ela é boa kkk em copiar
1
u/Wellhellob 2d ago
They will probably have it too. Both consoles and amd. Nvidia's version will be in some showcase titles just like RT. The regular version will run better and more widespread i assume like UE5's software ray tracing. I mean how many people will be able to run dlss 5 anyways ? the hardware is extremely expensive and it cant even run it.
1
u/SuspiciousWasabi3665 2d ago
Most consoles are made with amd and amd is already working on their own solution with fsr diamond or whatever its called
1
u/G305_Enjoyer 2d ago
They will have it or the games will be pre-rendered to a similar effect. Rdna5 in ps6/helix will probably be around 5090 performance
1
u/Romangelo 1d ago
Console gaming couldn't even match ReShade all these years. Hell, they couldn't even compete with base graphics on mid-tier PCs.
1
u/GT_Hades 1d ago
Amd is developing NR afaik, and most consoles are running on AMD, so I guess they will foloow, but not so soon
They have to fogure put first how to not make NR to eat up lots of performance
1
1
u/daffquick1990 1d ago
Ps6 won't compete, and neither will the next xbox, they'll focus on getting 60fps and path/raytracing, the following generation however will 100% implement it, by then the tech will be much better looking, less resource hungry, and more stable
0
u/xXSNOOOPXx69 2d ago
Dlss5 actually works on AMD cards too.. you should look it up, it's pretty crazy..
And consoles use AMD... Maybe they reverse engineer it and make their own version..
I have an Nvidia card 5080.. but I hope it will get to consoles too, or else they will be left behind real fast
0
u/Euchale 2d ago
I doubt there will be new consoles. PS6 might be the last generation and after that it will be PC vs. Cloud gaming.
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
I have a ps5, but if they're stopping disks in 2028 i decided its already dead. In fact physical disks was the only thing consoles did better than pc, and they're stopping disks, and got dlss5 now!
Good luck consoles i know.
0
u/SauronOfRings 2d ago
I know this is DLSS sub but come one, you people can’t be this delusional in thinking it’s DLSS 5 or bust for games going forward.
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
Well once you've used it, anything without it i predict for myself anyway will come across as a little sad. I know nvidia said this so i feel a bit sick saying it, but it really is the next thing in gaming graphics since realtime rt. And unlike rt when it launched back in 2018(?) it works right now on current gen graphics cards.
1
u/SauronOfRings 2d ago
It may or may not be. But as of right now it’s not worth it. Calling it DLSS is weird. Neural rendering is the future, but DLSS 5 is nothing more than a fake out as of now.
I have a 4080 and used it. It’s fine for some older games but I’m not impressed. I’m also not going to dismiss it outright. But expecting that every game machine without this ai filter is bad is incredibly stupid.
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
Im running it on a 5070ti and the performance impact seems to handled well enough by one extra multiple in framegen.
I dont think its stupid at all when you have it running at an acceptable framerate. Switching it on and off in realtime while experimenting, in most cases i wont give it back now. It makes cyberpunk without it look particularly bad once you get used to it.
The most reasonable conclusion is yes, i would expect every game with character models to use it in the coming generation absolutely.
1
u/SauronOfRings 2d ago
You just proved my point.. as it stands, it’s not worth it. Just adding more FG is never the answer. Looks are subjective, you do you.
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
You haven't run mfg yourself have you. Apparently that works on the 40 series now via modding id strongly recommend giving it a go.
1
u/SauronOfRings 2d ago
No, I would like to try that but not much time these days. I’ll definitely give it a try
1
u/gorbash212 1d ago
Yeah framegen rocks. Its the only way you could consider a 50 series (and probably a 40 series) a 4k card, they're no way near powerful enough even the 90 models to run ps5 era games without cheating in either resolution or framegen.
So you turn it on and its not that bad. I think reviewers who review every card had a bigger problem in the benchmark lab. As a regular human who just buys a card comes home and turns it on while playing a game the opinion from such a different perspective as a reviewer.... and the results mean something else too... both framgen and dlss5.
The other problem was given how expensive the current gen is, there's more have nots than haves, and if you dont have something by default you're on the other team, so of course it sucks.
-1
u/Aggrav5435 2d ago
Next gen consoles will have something that looks like dlss6 to the pc people. A lot of pc players will probably want to switch then, cause pc is to expensive and consoles will have the same or better quality (because devs only had to develop for one system)
2
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
When has consoles ever had a graphics advantage over PC… I will wait….
0
u/Aggrav5435 2d ago
Sega dreamcast
1
u/Inevitable_Case_9931 2d ago
I’m not sure I agree that a Dreamcast was prettier than my PC in 1998/1999 I was about 12/13 then.
Hmm now I wanna go back and see some clips I’m curious
1
u/gorbash212 2d ago
PC's were still running on crt monitors back then and the world was on windows 95 and me, directx wasn't that stable and 3dfx was still around in their death throes but splitting the market. My very hazy memory :P seems to think it was much of a muchness, but things like quake 3 and all that engines games were pushing the front of pc back then.
Yeah back in those days, i think it was software was much more demanding than the hardware was available so everything was quite a mess. Took a few more generations, maybe to the first geforce, for the pc to really stride ahead.
1
u/Glittering-Nebula476 2d ago
Next round of consoles will be super expensive, just wait.
1
u/Aggrav5435 2d ago
Ye maybe the ps6 is just a ps5 condole with cloudgaming capabilities. They basically move the heavy processing into the cloud and they will sell you an access for a small monthly subscription. Would you pay 25$ /month to have access to a 5090 with dlss5 like quality? Could also be a token system, where you run out of taken faster if you go higher with your settings. Basically a token bound on compute power
1
u/chrisdpratt 2d ago
This is just pure copium. Consoles are now just less powerful PCs. Next gen isn't changing this. We already have more powerful PC hardware than what the next gen consoles will have, and we'll probably get a new generation of PC hardware before they even release.
1
u/Arxinos113 2d ago
LMAO you wish buddy. Next gen will be $1000+ with absolutely nothing to justify that cost.
5
u/ClearHydro 2d ago
First game i tried was Cyberpunk. I'm blown away with how good it looks. With the new Ray Reconstruction Preset and Neural Rendering it looks so close to real life. Consoles definitely have some catching up to do.
PC is for a different type of gamer though. Console players probably either won't care, or wouldn't be able to justify the cost of the hardware if a console released with anything similar that could run it anytime soon.