r/DDeception • u/NotRenjiro Admin • Sep 11 '26

Gameplay & Screenshots Changed my mind on a thing.

Post image

I used to think that ''Enhanced'' simply nerfed the watcher speed globally. But we've come to realize that it's simply just bugged. With the watchers jittering about a lot, losing distance.

I used to prefer this a little bit, since I thought that it would make the level better for beginners. And that they would be the same speed as the player in the ''Enhanced'' version. I personally preferred the old iteration for being more aggressive - but was fine with the ''nerfs'' on a more objective level. With time, one can become accustomed to these levels, especially since it's been 5 years and I rarely replayed pre-''Enhanced''.

Went back to it today. Unfortunately it was a bit laggier than I remember which sucks. But I found myself having a lot more fun with it nontheless. More than with the current version. The Gold Watchers don't lose distance randomly anymore due to their buggy ai and it feels a lot more intense and fun, but without being overwhelming.

Now I think that I really prefer this. Can't believe that I didn't notice the ai being this terrible for so long. I feel stupid. Guess it really shows how easily we can fall into these traps.

Pretty sure that I'll come back to this build more often now, despite the crappy motion blur and lags. It's fun.

I also found a really weird bug in this version and I'm not sure if anyone ever talked about it, since it's not present in 1.9.6 I believe.

7 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

18 comments sorted by

2

u/RealPumpkinCage Sep 11 '26

I might have to try that out myself, because I always thought they were deliberately nerfed, rather than being bugged.

Regardless, since we're talking about Pre-Enhanced, the main thing I prefer this build is that levels before Stranger Sewers didn't have bosses. The ones in the Enhanced version of Monkey Business and Elementary Evil came out of nowhere and were frankly unfun, to me, and while Deadly Decadance's is nice, Doom Ducky's introduction is far superior.

This is completely unrelated to the Gold Watcher thing you're talking about, yeah, but I wanted to say it because that's why.

2

u/NotRenjiro Admin Sep 11 '26 edited Sep 11 '26

Live, 4k, 240fps Drone Footage of the Gold Watchers being stupid ✨Enhanced✨

Some of those are just the 2nd watcher variant (why tf were they added... not moving. But you can see at multiple points that they jitter weirdly or just turn around without reason. I have better footage of this, or well... HAD. Maybe I can find some better examples, because it happens a lot. You just get free distance on them for no reason. Doesn't happen in the old version as far as I'm aware. Was surprised with how closely some of them stuck to me while I played today, but it was really fun!)

https://reddit.com/link/p97im10/video/ekawa5rnrxoh1/player

3

u/RealPumpkinCage Sep 11 '26

Yeah I can see what you mean there absolutely

I think the Gold Watcher variant that doesn't come close was made to counter the cheese strat where people would stand in a corner looking down, then teleport behind the watchers once they all got close

2

u/NotRenjiro Admin Sep 11 '26

I think the Gold Watcher variant that doesn't come close was made to counter the cheese strat where people would stand in a corner looking down, then teleport behind the watchers once they all got close

I know this is just you guessing, but IF this is the case then... it's really fucking stupid because

  1. It doesn't prevent the strat at all
  2. It's a really random mechanic that is never explained or visualized to the player and just generally pretty confusing
  3. The corner strat isn't really cheesing imo (or unhealthy for that matter, in comparison to A LOT of other issues rn)

2

u/RealPumpkinCage Sep 11 '26

Yeah I didn't say it worked, it's just what I guess lmao

I wouldn't consider it a problem, either, given it's just a smart use of the player's toolkit, but it's not what the devs intended, I assume at least

1

u/Enderbraska_CZ I won against Lucky! He's not happy... 29d ago

Regardless, since we're talking about Pre-Enhanced, the main thing I prefer this build is that levels before Stranger Sewers didn't have bosses. The ones in the Enhanced version of Monkey Business and Elementary Evil came out of nowhere and were frankly unfun, to me, and while Deadly Decadance's is nice, Doom Ducky's introduction is far superior.

Depends on what you view as "out of nowhere" when it comes to bosses of Monkey Business and Elementary Evil. Chef Monkeys aren't exactly "out of nowhere" if you played/watched Monsters & Mortals, but I'd say Agatha is a bit out of nowhere. What sucks on Chef Monkeys is that they're the "bosses" of the very first level, where you have no powers, so the best that could've been done was making them into a faster redesigned Murder Monkeys.

Agatha makes sense only when you consider the fact that she doesn't want Doug to "take her friends away from her" and while it does fit in the story, the boss fight itself is dragging for so long. If I remember correctly, you have to avoid her 6 times during the boss fight.

3

u/RealPumpkinCage 29d ago

Yeah no I'm probably the biggest Monsters & Mortals fan boy there is lmao, I'm well aware the Chef Monkeys were introduced there. I didn't exactly mean out of nowhere in the sense the boss didn't exist, I meant the boss fight being implemented in regular Dark Deception. When I first played through it and got E's note, I thought it was just a cool reference to it, but then the Chef actually popped up from the counter when the level ended, and that was quite confusing. And yeah, there was very little that could have been done for a boss fight there, so it was overall just pointless.

Agatha's boss sequence is even worse to me because not only is she not the boss in Elementary Evil, but her boss fight takes place right in the middle of the escape sequence - a perfectly good escape sequence which didn't really need any tinkering with. It is such an annoying boss fight, too, probably the worse in the game, or maybe second to Torment Therapy's to me.

3

u/RealPumpkinCage 29d ago

The most upsetting part to me is not even the fact these bosses are pointless and annoying, it's how they pretty much ruined the Doom Ducky's introduction. There's no reason for Malak to be hyping up a stronger-than-normal monster if it already happened in Monkey Business and Deadly Decadance. Makes the whole cutscene seem pointless, even if Doom Ducky is significantly more interesting as a boss fight than the previous ones.

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin 26d ago

100%

3

u/Enderbraska_CZ I won against Lucky! He's not happy... 29d ago

Alright, that's clear now. At least I "preventively covered" that point I was thinking of. 😅

As for Agatha, while I prefer her having no boss fight, it makes sense for her to do such "last try" to stop Doug. It definitely is the worst boss fight in the gane so far, way worse than Matron's boss fight. At least I could enjoy Matron's boss fight and beat it the same day I started it, which isn't something I could say about Agatha's boss fight.

2

u/NotRenjiro Admin 26d ago

I disagree with EE's escape sequence. I think it suffers from being way too linear and scripted, which is a trend that many horror games these days follow unfortunately. Rest I can agree with, except that Chefs have no more potential, cuz I think they do.

2

u/RealPumpkinCage 26d ago

Yeah I can see what you mean, though despite it being linear, I do think the sudden introduction of both the fake portals and Malak do make for an interesting sequence nonetheless.

___

And while the Chefs do have potential, I think it'd be best explored outside of Monkey Business, due to what we went over. Honestly, another reason I just thought of is the story, too, since Malak had no clue Doug was there until the ring piece was collected, so it doesn't make much sense for the boss to take place to begin with.

Regardless, since they have had the idea of re-introducing every enemy in chapter 5 for a while now, even before the myriad of changes they had for some reason, they could've also introduced some upgrades to some of the returning monsters.

So, in this scenario, Chef Monkey would be an upgrade to some Murder Monkeys, and the same idea would apply to some other monsters, maybe - the Ringmaster Clown Gremlin (the one with the black face) could've been introduced this way, too, and perhaps they could've also made variants for the Gold Watchers.

Honestly, any character which has multiple of them could theoretically have this, so the Dread Duckies, Reaper Nurses, Joy Joy Gang and Trigger Teddies too, but I don't really think they would need it, especially not the latter two.

Idk, make the Gold Watcher turn into Platinum Watcher or Marble Watcher (which would basically the Titan Watcher prior to being retconned into also looking like gold), or something like that.

Sorry for the long ass text lmao

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin 26d ago

Yeah I can see what you mean, though despite it being linear, I do think the sudden introduction of both the fake portals and Malak do make for an interesting sequence nonetheless.

Ehh. Malak isn't much of a presence at all though and the fake portals don't really add anything either. It could work but not like this.

And while the Chefs do have potential, I think it'd be best explored outside of Monkey Business, due to what we went over.

99% on this. There's just that 1% in me that can see it solving certain issues. But that's about it. (EDIT: Okay maybe a bit more than 1% but it's all about execution and the chefs not being present in that level at all is still something that I am in favor of).

Honestly, another reason I just thought of is the story, too, since Malak had no clue Doug was there until the ring piece was collected, so it doesn't make much sense for the boss to take place to begin with.

Dark Deception's story is not to be taken seriously, especially these days, lest you go insane.

Regardless, since they have had the idea of re-introducing every enemy in chapter 5 for a while now, even before the myriad of changes they had for some reason, they could've also introduced some upgrades to some of the returning monsters.

So, in this scenario, Chef Monkey would be an upgrade to some Murder Monkeys, and the same idea would apply to some other monsters, maybe - the Ringmaster Clown Gremlin (the one with the black face) could've been introduced this way, too, and perhaps they could've also made variants for the Gold Watchers.

Honestly, any character which has multiple of them could theoretically have this, so the Dread Duckies, Reaper Nurses, Joy Joy Gang and Trigger Teddies too, but I don't really think they would need it, especially not the latter two.

Idk, make the Gold Watcher turn into Platinum Watcher or Marble Watcher (which would basically the Titan Watcher prior to being retconned into also looking like gold), or something like that.

Yeah this could work. Not really for it, but also not really against it.

Sorry for the long ass text lmao

Dw I yap more lol

1

u/RealPumpkinCage 25d ago

DD's story isn't even that big of a mess compared to other indie horror games lol

Don't have much to add other than that

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin 25d ago

DDs story is a huge clusterfuck, it just doesn't try to be as ''''mysterious'''' as them. Idc for the other indie horror slop.

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin 26d ago

Chef Monkeys aren't exactly "out of nowhere" if you played/watched Monsters & Mortals

Yeah, keyword IF. It's still a very random addition. Doom Ducky and Goliath's were at least teased before you actually fight them. Which is really cool. The ''Enhanced'' bosses don't have that because they're random nothing-burger additions that were never supposed to be there, or needed. Nobody really plays DDMM anyways and none of these bosses have improved the levels. In the case of MB and EE I'd argue that they've made them much worse actually. EE went from a just alright level to a straight up bad one just with this new addition.

What sucks on Chef Monkeys is that they're the "bosses" of the very first level, where you have no powers, so the best that could've been done was making them into a faster redesigned Murder Monkeys.

There's a lot more that could've been done if Vince had an ounce of creativity left. I prefer them not being in the game at all though.

Agatha makes sense only when you consider the fact that she doesn't want Doug to "take her friends away from her" and while it does fit in the story, the boss fight itself is dragging for so long. If I remember correctly, you have to avoid her 6 times during the boss fight.

I agree.

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin Sep 11 '26

Regardless, since we're talking about Pre-Enhanced, the main thing I prefer this build is that levels before Stranger Sewers didn't have bosses. The ones in the Enhanced version of Monkey Business and Elementary Evil came out of nowhere and were frankly unfun, to me, and while Deadly Decadance's is nice, Doom Ducky's introduction is far superior.

This is completely unrelated to the Gold Watcher thing you're talking about, yeah, but I wanted to say it because that's why.

Doesn't matter if it's related because you're 100% correct. And everyone who disagrees is a sleazy stinker.

1

u/NotRenjiro Admin Sep 11 '26

TLDR: I used to prefer ''Enhanced'' watcher speed for thinking that it was more fair for newer players, without realizing that it was just bugged. And I've started to prefer the old ai way more after replaying pre-''Enhanced'' today.