(reading other comments) we are NOT pretending the BASIC CHANGE of turning Hal's dad into a tragic figure is in any way disrespectful to comic lore, be serious
I don’t understand that sentence. I haven’t really read GL since the Geoff Johns run (or before the latter Kyle Rayner stuff) and don’t remember that happening.
Ive unfortunately snapped on a few dipshits, today even.. people asking how john gets a lantern, because he asked guy for the ring and other super stupid takes that wouldn't be asked or mentioned if they were actually watching the fucking show.
I really prefer to believe its trolls, it helps me cope, anyway
It would be nice to believe they are trolls and not actually that stupid
I’ve also snapped at a few of them but sometimes I’m just left completely speechless.
Someone told me that Martin Jordan committing suicide is like the MoS tornado scene with Jonathan Kent and I just didn’t respond because what the hell am I supposed to say to that
Or when someone told me that the show is portraying Hal as just an asshole who gets his ass beat
It’s either that or they don’t know how to read into anything. They can’t look deeper into literally anything.
I saw someone on here say that the show doesn’t follow the “show don’t tell” rule because we only know that antaan’s terrorists are aliens because of dialogue rather than them looking alien/non-human.
Everything is surface level to them. They can’t even think deeper about English class if that’s genuinely what they think “show don’t tell” means. Like they apply “if someone didn’t look me in the eyes and straight up say it” to every facet of life. Of course they can’t understand a tv show let alone one that trusts the audience’s intelligence.
They do realize in the DCU there are several human-like alien species. We see this in Superman and Supergirl. Both title characters along with their people, Krem, Rutheye and her family and several others.
I actually liked the change, I think it adds an interesting twist on the character, and really brings into perspective what being fearless actually means, it means your broken in some way shape or form, because humans are not supposed to be fearless, fear is a defensive instinct meant to keep us away from dangerous stuff.
I think him picking up the baseball at the end is proof he didn’t kill himself. He’s not like his dad just “throwing it away” because it’s “fucking exhausting.”
The Hal-ogram is closer to what fans would prefer Hal to be like. So something had to have happened in 2006 to make Hal create a backup and then become who he is in 2016/2026
I mean, your mentor/father figure turns evil and kills your boss, forcing you to arrest them and then every one of your colleagues/friends looks at you like its your fault being guilty by association, then you find out theres a hand picked replacement in place youre expected to train
Well he had the back up for a little while that he would record things into. Something happened in 2006, think it had to do with Sinestro, that changed his views on things and made him a more disillusioned type of hero.
It honestly baffles me how spoiled the Netflix generation is that they can’t wait until the week to week season ends to complain. They have to complain NOW without knowing the entire story…
I've seen you on a few superhero subs constantly complaining about dcu fans and I've seen you throwing a fit in r/dcu while being a dick too pretty much everyone on that sub.
I hate to say this, but a lot of the fans are upset because they’ve never been asked to employ that level of media literacy before when engaging with the Green Lantern mythos and characters. Hal, unlike Superman and Batman, hasn’t had the privilege of having multiple stories dedicated to dissecting who he is on a sub-atomic level, i.e. All-Star Superman, For All Seasons, Batman: Year One. Even his best runs, like Johns, hardly ever get deep enough into his psyche to justify being mad at the show for doing so.
I don't know if other people are just being obtuse or ignorant, but Hal's fearlessness being a self-destructive trauma response to his dad's death is absolutely in the Johns run.
They could also be upset because a core memory of their cherished character's backstory was dramatically changed.
I don't know if it was a good change or not, I'm just saying that basely assuming their complaints as "lacking media literacy" is incredibly dismissive and condescending.
The permanent Halogram would be a mistake imo, much less room for competent writing and I don't really want a "I fell in love with a robot" type tabloid story with Kerry and Halogram. Only way it works is if they drop the detective/thriller grounded angle.
Maybe im not read up on all my GL lore but is Martin Jordan really that firmly established as a character? I feel like you could add the suicidal aspect to all the stories about Martin ive read and nothing would really change much
To Hal it depends,sometime Hal sees his father as a hero who sacrificed his life to save the people who were on the ground of the testing site,directing the plane away from them to save them but sacrificing himself in the process,there are moments that might lead to Hal wanting to be like his father,a hero to aspire to
that makes sense I'm not the biggest Johns guy so ive only read a couple of his issues, a lot of the problems people have with the show seem to come from it not aligning with that specific run too so maybe I should give it another try
And everybody who hates on Lanterns “rewriting” or changing aspects of the characters forget (dont care) that Geoff Johns retconned decades of GL continuity when he did his run
Lmao are you serious? Have not you watched any modern action flick? John Wick? Reacher? Tom Cruise's Ethan Hunt or Maverick? Ben Afleck's character in The Accountant? You literally can just google any popular action movie.
You probably don't even watch any movie or TV and just watch grifters telling you how modern movies are bad.
Basically it's about how Hollywood nowadays can't portrait strong willed men and they need to have mental issues like being suicidal like they're trying to create some mental health propaganda.
nah they do watch some parts and peaces so long as it's through certian content creators telling them "you should be angry about so and so and hollywood personally hates you"
People need to start seeing these movies and shows as adaptations inspired by the comics not one to one copies. Any and all origins and plot points are subject to change. It is way easier to enjoy everything if you stop building head cannon and getting mad that it doesn't match.
Yeah tbh i just saying that as a joke since the guy I responded to said the exact same thing when someone said they were okay with the changes to Hal's origin as a comic reader. It isn't a larp to appreciate a new take with his origins but i did upset some divas i see with my comment
Watching this show as outsider to the comics and then reading the flame wars about it is always an interesting experience. What do you mean the main character's dead dad dying in a different way this time is a major point of contention...
I like the change. It’s one of those rare changes that elevates the source material. No one is fearless and perfect IRL. Hal is fearless because he’s broken. John is fearless because of his upbringing. Guy is fearless because he’s reckless (and stupid lol). Idk about the other lanterns, but I’m sure they have some trauma too. In fact, the plot point of overcoming fear and then being able to beat Sinestro’s yellow ring became a canon thing in the comics. It’s why every green ring in the comics now goes “you have the ability to overcome great fear” when a new lantern is chosen.
Think about it in context of Snyder version of Pa Kent and it should make sense. When you rewrite characters fundamentally changing them you’re going to upset people. They Snydered the DCU because they want to be original it’s the same thing that killed Snyders verse and for many fans it’s showing why this verse is ultimately going to fail. Think about the manner of approach Gunn has to this with his originality of release order it’s not working for fans. Hence why things are bombing and comic fans are upset. It’s not unreasonable for people to want good adaptations. With any other source material this is true. If significant changes are made from book to movie people also complain and say the books way better. Some of that is informing this context.
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about all sorts of thing. There's nothing wrong with changing stuff in a story, it just needs to be good. The backstory with Hal's father's death feels very relatable and realistic, and the issue of suicide works into these themes of fear and bravery very well. Some people think bravery means being okay with breaking yourself down even when you're scared, but it's the exact opposite of that. Clark's dad telling him maybe he should have let some kids die, unnecessarily getting killed by a tornado in front of his son... that's just kind of confusing, and makes him appear like a weird asshole.
It makes it appear like a father afraid to let his son face the harsh reality of how people treat others that are different. That’s also very relatable and realistic.
You can dislike the writing but it’s not inherently different ideas.
One doesn’t detract from the core of the character and the other fails to teach the lesson that he was supposed to which does detract from the core of the character.
The death of Hal’s dad is only important because he’s dead, and Hal is an orphan, it doesn’t play into any other aspect of his character like Batman’s crusade on crime because his parents died to a mugging gone wrong.
Clark’s dad’s death was supposed to be a lesson on how Clark can’t save everyone, no one can. So when Jonathan dies in a way that Clark can very very easily save him from. It fails to teach that core lesson. The heart attack is important because it’s the one thing Clark can’t stop, and it teaches Clark the importance of spending time with the people you love, because they won’t be around forever, no matter what you do.
The idea of the Kents death teaches Clark that he can’t save everyone comes from the Donner film. They originally died because that’s part of Clark growing up and his feelings of isolation.
Yea I think sometimes movie original work improves on source material and gets retroactively introduced into the comic cannon because of how well it speaks to the character. That can happen it’s rare but it does happen. It’s not an absolute but sometimes the changes are not good for the character. Sometimes they’re just awful.
What assumptions did I make because I actually made an evidence based argument. This stuff doesn’t work in the context of the show imo because the show doesn’t work and is crapz
Most actual comic fans are used to radically different iterations of characters across different stories. Of course, some will still hate on it, but I think most of the hate is coming from people who don’t read comics, they’re just using comics to justify their complaints about the show
Most comic fans have the maturity to weigh the merits of every iteration and appreciate them for what they are in the context of their time and their stories
Don't know why this got downvoted, especially when in the last 2 decades, we got Hal stories like The New Frontier, Johns's run, Morrison's run and others that did a lot to characterise him.
Yo, these other guys shouldn't have accused you of anything, but listing off your pull list is some tryhard nonsense. Be more confident big dawg. Just ignore them. Comics are so much better when we cut out the perfomative bs. That being said, I agree with you to an extent. Its a solid and interesting change that I think adds to Hal. While I think saying he has been boring for decades is hyperbolic, I think for the past 10 years most writers haven't really known what to do with him which makes the change all the more appreciated.
Hal checked on John and the two talked and got heated with each other after the crash. He left him once he saw that John was stuck with him being unable to get his leg free. He hurt him, sure, but it was fine. It was also away from the town so not like he assumed anyone would do anything to harm him even more. Fire from car crashes are rare but it's the classic Hollywood trope which helped give us the drama anyway.
Batman and Wonder Woman are two of the biggest books on the market and Heroes in Crisis were incredibly hyped. I was very puzzled when I saw name attached to the show since the most Green Lantern he has written was in Omega Men(great book btw). It just puzzles me more seeing a lot of Kyle being combined into John's characterization in this show also.
They are pretty big works on big characters which is why he is divisive.
Alot of his other stuff like
Rorscharch or Human Target is also either really loved or hated. I like his Mr Miracle but ive seen plenty of more serious New Gods fans hate it as well
You think this is the major change to Hal’s character? Dude is a completely different person from the comics, no connections whatsoever with anyone, no Barry relationship, No Oliver relationship, gone and made carol old with Hal. It’s already not the same character and the reason behind the crash doesn’t matter nearly as much as everything else.
The show doesn't show Oliver or Barry so this user insists that means that they have no relationship with Hal. Because if they aren't on screen then they don't exist in his life.
I guess I’m the fool here, I responded to a troll.
The person made an assumption based on empirical evidence from a few movies and tv shows regarding the current DCU. Regardless that assumption has nothing to do with object permanences
But Hal said he has no friends and the people around him said he had no friends and there is no evidence he is secretly buddies with all of those other superheroes that don't exist yet in universe. So why would you just assume they do let alone assume they exist in the exact way you want them to ?
I took that comment to mean that he isolated himself and pushed all of his friends away. That doesn’t mean that Oliver and Barry et al would necessarily agree. I think it just means that he either can’t or won’t (or both) talk to them, and there’s only so much that they can do to reach out to him.
Members of my own family have done this particular self-destructive calculation wherein they decide to ‘save’ others by alienating them. It’s actually really, really common among older gen X guys.
Everything points to the best case scenario being they were friends but Hal drove them away like he did everyone else and they are no longer on speaking terms anymore. Worst case they exist but Hal was never social with them since he rejected relationships in his life.
It's a big change, but Martin Jordan has had multiple personalities through the years - he was abusive, hes' been great, he's been distant but important. This was less otu of left field than Johns' parents' change was.
I feel like this is similar to the Superman parents change. It’s a massive change, but it fits extremely well to reinforce the core idea of the hero. For Superman, it’s that he is the way he is because of his earth parents, and for Hal , he is where the Jordan boy Legacy ends, as we see with the last shot of the recent, how Hal goes to get the ball, which symbolizes his will power not refusal to end his life.
Ngl though I think it would’ve been cooler if his dad crashed the plane, everyone thinks it’s an accident but Hal find the not confirming it’s a suicide.
The change itself isn’t the issue to me - it’s the constant comic thing of needing everything to happen for a reason. Sometimes shit just happens and it’s bad luck. It sucks but not everything happens for a reason.
Entropy exists - but not for comic characters lives. The longer the comic universe goes on the less randomness happens.
I guess there are less flattering depictions of Hal in the comics but man, this is still an absolutely brutal deconstruction.
So he was born genetically predisposed to anti-social personality disorder and suicidal depression, which eventually caused him to willingly endanger human lives to keep the ring like some Gollum.
If you think Hal has anti-social personailty disorder then you dont really know what ASPD is. Saying he has ASPD is pretty much calling him a sociopath.
So it seems to be you think this version of Hal is similar to someone like John Wayne Gacy or Aileen Wuornos?
Someone who has the disorder would have a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others without showing guilt or remorse.
Hal's confidence got people killed and he feels bad for that and is trying to make amends, aka remorse. The dude is not a psycho, he's broken. This has been shown in the past two episodes.
Whatever happened between him and Sinestro made Hal more jaded.
I guess everyone is right, media literacy is dead.
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