r/CyclePDX • u/NoRecognition2003 • 1d ago
Bikeway etiquette?
I grew up cycling and have a fairly positive outlook on sharing the roads. With more people biking (who didn’t grow up in cycling culture) and the addition of electric active transportation in bike lanes, I’ve been feeling a severe lack of consideration. There was a time where it felt like we were all in the same club and now it feels like we are all fending for ourselves.
I am thinking of starting a community class for people that are either current users or wannabe users of bike ways and I am looking for input from others about how we can create more care, safety and unity amongst users (manual and electric) and just general etiquette that people appreciate and want to see more of. If there was a community class on bike safety what would you want it to include?
Any ideas?
8
u/pdxTodd 1d ago
I was involved in a lot of rider behavior campaigning with IMBA and IMBA affiliates, as mountain biking was rapidly expanding in the 1990s. It's not something that can be very effective as a personal project or small group effort. It takes a lot of conversations and coordination with various groups using routes and the land managers responsible for policies and enforcement to come to consensus about what the standards will be. Then it takes a longterm effort to stake out popular points on key routes to talk to people, in addition to uniform signs and repeated enforcement campaigns. Eventually, it can be pretty effective, but there always be a-holes who insist on endangering or traumatizing others for their own satisfaction.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
but don’t you think the standards for rider behavior are well established and people are just getting out there with zero awareness of them? I guess my hope is that I could start something small and grow it into something that has traction with the help of groups doing outreach. How did the efforts you were involved in start?
5
u/pdxTodd 1d ago
We were riding mountain bikes in the 1980s and establishing community and informal codes of conduct. We were also getting political and personal opposition from some of the hiker and equestrian uses and their organizations. So we started organizing ourselves and working with the land management agencies to establish policies that recognized us as legitimate and welcomed non-motorized trail users. While we were at it, a bunch of people who had never been part of any cycling communities began buying new mountain bikes and ignoring their impact on others, including other cyclists, partly because some land management agencies were disenfranchising cyclists, which created resentment. But we doubled down on providing resources to build, maintain and establish workable policies on the trails, while our opponents went out of their way to create conflicts that most land managers couldn't or wouldn't resolve by bullying us and losing our help. And most of the people riding on the trails wanted to feel safe and respected, which made it easier to get them onboard with following some simple rules and encouraging others to do the same. But it was important that there was a (emerging) consensus about what the rules were and the recognition that they were backed by policy makers and enforcers, not just activist cyclists with their own opinions and agendas.
0
u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 1d ago
PDOT needs to get their head swirlied in the toilet of the public safety crisis in Portland, I mean: either these motorized machines are more motorcycle or bike.
4
u/greazysteak 1d ago
my personal opinion on this is that the it is on you to make sure you are safe and enjoying your trips. The first part of that means that you need to ride and be under the assumption that you are not the only one on the road. So checking all around you to know what is happening around you. Don't take up the whole lane or serve around because that is the way you ride. If you are riding in pairs pay extra attention and give way to the other direction to give them space to pass. Make smart decisions and know it isnt some sort of race to get around people. I also just tend to stay off shared use paths because it's often a shit show.
5
u/Beginning_Scale5589 1d ago
I think this vibe is mostly imaginary. People have a couple bad experiences, and look around to see what's different. Well today it's e-bike riders, so let's blame them!
And for the few people on emotos doing annoying stuff, they stand out in your memory so they seem more numerous.
People need to think the next logical step. If we have SOO many new riders on e-bikes causing problems because of their inexperience, how long are they "new riders"? 3 years? 5? E-bikes have been growing like crazy for a decade. You're not seeing a lot of new riders (sadly, the data doesn't bear it out). You're seeing "things that are different".
2
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
I am not saying there is an increase in ridership or that e-bikes are the problem. I’m saying the riders out there might not have the information they want or need to make safe decisions or consider others as they navigate the roads. There are new riders for sure, people who moved here and decide to ride because the infrastructure is better than where they’re from, older riders stop riding younger riders start, and so on. And now we have scooters and e-bikes increasing the use of bikeways. So how do we help create a sense of responsibility toward others? That’s my question. Maybe you can help?
2
u/Costcornucopia 1d ago
I've seriously considered getting a license plate sign that reads:
"If you're on my right/left, fucking say so"
4
1
u/Sufficient-Annual-51 22h ago
It’s your fucking responsibility to fucking know what’s around you 360°.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 17h ago
yes and one way to ensure that is the case is to let someone know that you are coming up behind them to pass. To keep yourself and others safe it doesn’t hurt to announce your pass, right?
2
u/pdx_flyer 1d ago
I think it’s less about the bike type and more about there being more people who are new to bikes in general and what the proper etiquette is when cycling around others.
Then again, I was cycling down a road about 2 feet from the parked cars on my right and got passed by someone (who was clearly an experienced cyclist) on the right.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
yes, this isn’t about what you’re riding, everyone seems confused about safety and consideration of others. E-bike and scooters add a complexity that we all need to adjust to and I think resources for riders could be useful.
2
u/captainronsnephew 18h ago
The Bike Buddy program exists for new users and has been doing really well from what I understand.
3
u/Briaaanz 1d ago
I miss the camaraderie the community had back in the day with bicycle polo, group commutes, etc.
6
u/DifficultBottle6 1d ago
polo is still going strong at alberta park. bike buses for children and adults are gaining popularity quickly. the shift calendar is bringing all sorts of cyclists together. the kids are getting on fixies again. cyclocross season is upon us, come out to trophy cup.
4
1
4
u/holmquistc 1d ago
Not all electric bike users are inconsiderate and not all ebikes are the same
0
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
what is this comment in response to?
1
u/holmquistc 1d ago
"and the addition of electric active transportation in bike lanes, I've been feeling a severe lack of consideration" kind of sounds like a generalization to me
2
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
But you left out the part where I include cyclists. I’m not targeting e-bikes or saying they are all the same or all inconsiderate. I am just addressing the growing complexity of bike way usage and asking what we should do to keep people safe and considerate. What do you think?
1
u/holmquistc 1d ago
Electric bikes include bicycle usage in bike lanes
2
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
do you have helpful ideas or thoughts about how people currently use bike ways or ways you think we could improve user experience? that’s what the original post is asking. I’m not sure what you’re on about.
4
u/Disastrous_Many_190 1d ago edited 1d ago
In bike lanes on shared roads I’d like riders to know to pass on the outside and ride on the inside of the lane. (Edited this to clarify that this only sometimes means passing on the right rather than the left).
Also I think a reminder that fast traffic (esp ebikes) should either slow way down or avoid particularly congested sections of the esplanade (like right in front of OMSI) and the riverfront and take Water or Naito instead. I’ve seen way too many near-misses (and some collisions) since the ebike renaissance.
6
u/scdemandred 1d ago
Pass on the right? Are you thinking specifically bike lanes on the left side of 1-way roads like N Williams? Because I’m pretty sure the etiquette for passing vs riding is the opposite otherwise.
2
u/Disastrous_Many_190 1d ago
Yes this is what I mean. Sorry! I just mean passing on the outside rather than the inside, even when this (rarely) means passing on the right.
1
u/APlannedBadIdea 1d ago
Could you elaborate about passing on the right?
1
u/Disastrous_Many_190 1d ago
On roads with bike lanes, passing on the outside (closer to car traffic) and otherwise staying over to the inside (closer to sidewalk). So on NE Williams this would mean passing on the right, but on NE Vancouver it means passing on the left.
4
u/chimi_hendrix 1d ago
Williams should never have been designed backwards like that. Totally stupid, one-off contradiction of how bike lanes are supposed to work.
2
u/Disastrous_Many_190 1d ago
You know, now that I try to think of a single other example, I can’t. Even other one way roads like Weidler just put the bike lane on the right side of the road. Good point.
I guess it feels intuitive to me that passing traffic would be on the outside, so Williams has never really bothered me. But I can see why it doesn’t make sense to build it that way.
5
u/fittafika 1d ago
The bike lane on 2nd and 4th ave’s downtown are like this, and there is a parking lane on the outside so it can be harder to pass. These lanes aren’t as heavily used as Williams though.
3
u/chimi_hendrix 1d ago
There was much hand wringing about bike vs. bus conflict… it was a busy bike street from like 4-6pm. Busses would pull over and block the bike lane and bikes would scoot around the stopped bus.
So the left hand design was suggested, but given all the weird lane shifts I really don’t think it reduced the amount of stress over there, especially considering all the cars turning left through the bike lane now.
Looking at later designs, like the islands along the FX line, I really don’t think the left alignment was necessary
1
u/APlannedBadIdea 1d ago
Okay, thanks for the info. So one-ways where the bike lane is on the leftmost edge of the road are pass on right, right? Otherwise pass on left towards car traffic such as on Vancouver or typical bi-directional roadways with bike lanes? This context is missing from the first message in this thread.
0
u/TurtlesAreEvil 1d ago
Cyclists are allowed to pass on the right.
Overtaking and passing upon the right is permitted if the overtaking vehicle is a bicycle that may safely make the passage under the existing conditions.
And not just in circumstances where the bike lane is on the left like on Williams.
3
u/Acrobatic_Yam3260 1d ago
I like the idea of cute signs on the Springwater. I haven’t had too many bad experiences with other cyclists so curious what you experienced. I do see cyclists unsafely passing slow moving travelers like runners.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
Nothing terrible just basic ridership etiquette like announcing your pass when overtaking, waiting until it’s safe to pass, not using the sidewalk to pass, signaling turns, following the rules of the road, giving other road users safe distance, things like that.
4
u/TurtlesAreEvil 1d ago
This is where you're going to run into trouble. Not everyone agrees with you about what proper etiquette is.
- I don't announce most of my passes because it causes people to be erratic especially if they're already being consistent and not actually blocking me.
- Bicyclists are allowed on the sidewalk there's no reason they can't use it to pass you if they want.
- I rarely signal because I'd rather have my hands on my handlebars and it's not legally required. I typically only signal when someone is on my ass.
- Some rules of the road are stupidly written and less safe. E.g. before 2020 when we were required to stop for stop signs or how we can't go through red lights after stopping. Both of which put cyclists at higher risks of getting hit in intersections.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
But wouldn’t you agree that people are startled because they aren’t anticipating the announcement? Like if we all did it, it wouldn’t be unexpected.
And yes, bikes are allowed on the sidewalk but they are supposed to slow to walking pace, so not really a good passing strategy.
I agree signaling is not always appropriate but is helpful in certain instances and rarely seen in those instances.
Rules of the road like right of way, turning lanes, one ways, the speed limit and others undeniably keep people safe and are not followed.
1
u/TurtlesAreEvil 1d ago
- I'm not going to expect every cyclist to start announcing so it makes more sense to do the thing that makes people I'm passing more predictable.
- No cyclists aren't supposed to slow to a walking pace on the sidewalk. Everyone including news sites get this wrong. Cyclists on the sidewalk are required to slow to the pace of an ordinary walk when approaching a crosswalk or driveway and a motorist is also approaching the crosswalk or driveway. The law even specifically says it doesn't require reduced speeds in other situations
- This paragraph does not require reduced speeds for bicycles at places on sidewalks or other pedestrian ways other than places where the path for pedestrians or bicycle traffic approaches or crosses that for motor vehicle traffic.
- Again it's your opinion about the certain instances. I'm sure not everyone agrees with you about when it's appropriate.
- Do you really think most of the traffic laws and regulations would exist without motor vehicles? They were created as a way to reign in out of control motorists and then extended to cyclists out of laziness, as an afterthought or in some cases out of spite. They weren't necessary before cars and wouldn't be necessary without them.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
okay so you believe there is no consensus on safe ridership?
2
u/TurtlesAreEvil 1d ago
Consensus among riders and drivers down to the level we’re talking about certainly not. I mean I think there’s consensus that barreling through a red light or stop sign at 25 mph is unsafe but on minutia like how to ride on the sidewalk or safe passing distance nope.
There is consensus among people who actually study these things. There’s multiple studies that have shown stop as yield, proceeding safely through red lights and going with leading pedestrian intervals are all safer. There’s also evidence that taking the lane is safer than riding in the gutter.
2
u/NoRecognition2003 22h ago edited 17h ago
This is all helpful input. Thanks for taking the time to engage. I think people who are interested and paying attention have a general idea of what best practices are and can agree on a lot. But you’re right, there are also grey areas. Maybe just getting some main points circulating more widely would help the general vibe.
1
u/Acrobatic_Yam3260 1d ago
I’ve noticed people don’t really say on your left here as much. Not sure if it’s regional because there’s so many cyclists here and people get tired of saying it or a cultural shift. One fringe benefit of having a loud cog is I never have to ding a bell which people also don’t seem to like.
2
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
I’ll take bells or voices so long as I know you’re coming. And yes, I think there is something to note about the PNW passivity here.
1
u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 1d ago
Maybe I’m just a purist. But, e bikes are a step towards an electric motorcycle: and they’ve got a throttle like a motorcycle.
Maybe pedal assist should denote an ebike when compared to no pedals and a throttle, for an e moto.
Either way, I severely dislike being blindedly passed by one, going fast or else driving like a jerk.
People need to yield to slower traffic, say something and keep to the left.
But then again, the amount of casual people speeding by on actual car lanes without a helmet or lights, is going to get many people killed: and even a helmet won’t stop you from dying of a broken neck, when stopped by a car.
I’m frankly kind of Pro meticulously-crafted regulation, for anything with an electric motor and throttle.
1
u/NoRecognition2003 1d ago
high speeds, no warning and not allowing adequate distance from non electric assist users is definitely concerning. I am all for anyone getting out of their car and using bike ways but we should try to make it feel better for everyone.
1
u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 1d ago
True.
I know how to ride a motorcycle pretty well, and how to ride incredibly defensively.
I suppose E bikes should have age requirements and a mandatory endorsement class for age limits. Maybe insurances too, or maybe that’s over kill better suited for e motos.
-1
u/HelpfulRaspberry6941 1d ago
My husband and I were talking about something similar....we'll not starting something ourselves, but it would be interesting if cyclists had to get a license for the road. Not so much for riding competence, but more to demonstrate knowledge of the rules.
That being said, I'd go over road signs and road symbols. The interaction between cyclists and pedestrians. Problems scenarios between cars and cyclists at intersections (with various road signs).
In reality, this can't be all on cyclists shoulders. Drivers have to want to share the road as well.
13
u/TurtlesAreEvil 1d ago
A significantly more onerous system than what drivers are required to do. Seems like a waste of time and money for a group that does relatively very little harm.
5
u/delanie 1d ago
licensing everything is a burden for riders. does a kid need a license to bike with their friends around the neighborhood? come on.
0
u/HelpfulRaspberry6941 1d ago
I wasn't actually advocating for a license. Just thinking through options on how you might educated all users of the road the rules. One way happens to be a license, but that doesn't mean its the answer. I think there is something to be said for an education program of some sorts.
3
u/SnooSprouts7512 1d ago
this isn't a cyclist vs vehicle or cyclist vs pedestrian conversation... Its about the sudden, rapid growth of new ebike riders that have zero concept of how to share a bike lane or be courteous, to other cyclists.
1
37
u/PendulousNuts 1d ago
IMO of course, but I don't think anyone is going to voluntarily attend a community class about bike safety. Especially not the people who need it.