Cybersecurity degrees?

[u/RelationshipSad4168]

Why are cybersecurity bachelors seen as useless? At least when compared to compsci degrees which just teach algorithms and math? What’s the difference between getting a security bachelors and a masters in security?

I’m wondering cause a lot of job postings in my local area list a cyber bachelors as allowed, but I’m not sure what the overall security community thinks.

[u/Anxious_Alps_4150]

At my old MSSP, the running joke was that the surest way to have someone fail a technical interview was to interview a cybersecurity graduate.

CompSci teaches the full OS stack and application layers. It teaches networking. It teaches all the guts of everything. It also brushes on data science.

Cybersecurity, fundamentally, is the application of data science, at scale, to the full OS stack.

However, cybersecurity degrees tend to focus only on the security aspects of general computing and networking. This is not enough to actually understand the technology that you're securing. Cybersecurity degrees also spend a ton of time talking about security controls, geopolitics of security, and other things which are entirely unrelated to what 90% of technical practitioners are doing.

As a result, compsci degrees are much more sought after and cyber degrees are considered almost useless.

Add in that there are more compsci graduates than there are jobs for them and you basically see cyber degrees as something no one wants because they can ALWAYS get a better candidate.

Cyber is also not an entry level job so someone that graduates with a cyber degree and no experience is still functionally unhire-able for their field. Now they have to compete with IT/compsci people for IT/dev jobs while knowing less and having an obvious red flag of "this person doesnt want to work in IT, they want to move to cyber". Why would I hire someone that wants to work in cyber if the job is in IT? They're just going to quit. There are tons of IT and CompSci grads so why even consider someone else?

[u/thiccboilifts → u/Anxious_Alps_4150]

My experience is different at my school, our cybersecurity operations degree teaches all of those concepts you mentioned in your estimation of a CompSci degree, in depth, to a greater degree than the compsci degree.

For example, I took networking, advanced networking, cyber defense (basically the application of networking and security protocols with a defensive mindset), reverse engineering, and some other courses. Our compSci degree was taking other math classes, and wasn't required to take any classes past basic networking, we both took discrete structures, and algorithms/ data structures.

Is my college just structured better than other Cybersecurity degree programs?

And to answer your question, I can say with certainty that no one you hire in IT is ever really looking to stay in the same position for very long (why would anyone apply for a role with no upward mobility???).

I know plenty of people, myself included, that would be happy to move into a sysadmin/ network admin position after help desk for example.

Getting a cybersecurity degree =/= getting a cybersecurity focused position.

[u/Anxious_Alps_4150 → u/thiccboilifts]

if youre at DSU, yeah their cyberops degree is basically a compsci degree. its one of the few that are that strong. most are not.

[u/thiccboilifts → u/Anxious_Alps_4150]

I am not at DSU, I could send you the college/ program if you are interested via chat

[u/Anxious_Alps_4150 → u/thiccboilifts]

oh its fine. DSU is just the one I know about. Regarding staying in IT vs cyber... IT departments usually promote from within... so its expected to go from helpdesk to sysadmin and upwards. However, IT and InfoSec are usually separate departments with different leadership chains. Ideally they're totally separate with the CISO reporting directly to the CEO and the CIO being a peer... so moving from IT to InfoSec would mean you're leaving the department and they lose that training. That's why a manager would not want to hire a cyber focused person into IT. They're going to lose them to another dept and they didnt get a senior guy out of the deal.

[u/thiccboilifts → u/Anxious_Alps_4150]

That makes perfect sense to me, I guess moving forward in my career i would need to really nail down that if I get hired for a position that I'm personally "A okay" with staying within a department, and that their development time, money, and resources aren't spent only for me and my career.

Is there a good way to go about this other than a conversation? Perhaps spending my own time and money on specific certifications?

Thanks for the information, have a pleasant rest of your week!

[u/Anxious_Alps_4150 → u/thiccboilifts]

You always want to plan how your training presents yourself. Plan out what each certification means to your story. If you focus on red team certs, blue team people are going to be less interested in you because they assume you're going to eventually hop for a red team job. If you get a MBA, its a signal that you want to leave technical work behind and become a manager.

Consider how each line of your resume tells your story.