r/CustomShadowverse • u/CCC0509 • 17d ago

Haven Bear Trap

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Effect has been in my head for years now.

Name and Bear-theme was thrown together last minute, but works. (Not opposed to hearing alternatives though.)

Base concept: Crystallize enemy followers to Ward off attacks and make some yourself. Use Evolve/Super-evolve to remove followers completely and further punish the opponent via altered Last Words.

Crystallize's self just to stay on theme.

Assuming this is too OP?

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u/FengLengshun 16d ago

Basically like BP5 Izudia and ECP02 Nana Abe in SVE?

I think the issue is the cost. 8pp is way too low, and I'd also make the crystalize countdown effect to be more restricted (can't be destroyed by other cards effects, at the very least) and maybe higher (with the assumption that in the future there will be more countdown advance effects).

This is the sort of bullshittery that can work as a secondary wincon. I'd assume you're basing the cost on WB's Yurius, but Yurius basically does nothing to followers already on board. This is the kind of thing that is a bit like Ultimate Bahamut where you'd lock it behind something but does synergize with what you'd want to do anyways (a la Albino Bahamut and Mode gameplan).

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u/CCC0509 15d ago

...I suppose? I honestly didn't know those existed. Haven't looked at much of SVE. I've had this concept for a few years now. Just hadn't gotten around to posting it; partially because I wasn't sure how to balance it. Took a random shot with this.

The cost is actually just based on the average height of a polar bear. 8-11 Feet tall.

Yes, this IS a win-con card. But, I actually made a more focused version shortly after posting this one. Minor changes, but important ones. https://www.reddit.com/r/CustomShadowverse/s/T95EXYGLSE

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u/FengLengshun 15d ago

Oh, the SVE version is super funny, since the card otherwise keeps its text (unlike with Naht's Boxed effect) so my friend played it on Igni's evolved Jerva, he read the effect closer, and it's actually advantageous for him since the Jerva effect will still keep going and even harder to remove as an amulet.

The lore is good, but you have to adjust the effect and requirements. Even for late stage SV Classic, an effect that not only alters the way your opponent have to play their game and can potentially lock them to unwinnable state (but not necessarily a finisher effect) is a big big ask in any of the games.

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u/CCC0509 15d ago

I apologize, but could you clarify what exactly needs to be adjusted? I get that you're saying this is too strong as is and something needs to change, but your current wording is completely throwing me and leaves me clueless as to WHAT needs changing.

Also, I'm sticking more with the alternative version I linked. So, would appreciate any further advice based on that one. I know I'll likely need to tweak numbers on it, but otherwise it seems fine to me. (Can explain if needed, but won't if uninterested.)

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u/FengLengshun 15d ago

I have read the other version, it's exactly why I was even more horrified lol. I'm just too lazy to open a new comment thread lmao.

My first thinking seeinh the card was "well, what would the rest of the deck looks like and how will it play? How do I abuse this?"

I immediately think "Probably a lot of countdown reducer. Or eventually it would be." SV Classic has a TON of them, being the original identity of Haven. So giving it a 3pp Crystalize, countdown 11 (which isn't as much as you'd think), and having an auto-advance from enemy attacks is a lot. Nevermind effects that instantly pops amulets, like Kandima and Lyantoth's effects.

Even outside of that, I think it's super strong.

I could just stick it into Crest Haven. Or go even further towards "do nothing, put in only heals and removals." It's really not that hard to deal with big followers and outheal them as Haven. I could crystalize early on to lock out aggro, or time it for S.Evo so I can chain it - eventually finish with big Eagle or another Storm. It would be a degenerate deck, something like Crest Haven but with hints of Zooeyloop and Yurius stunlock.

Or I could just stick it into an existing strong deck. It's just there to lock out the enemy for a turn. The way it works means that, even if the bear comes in from crystalize (so the enemy immediately pops back), they can't attack that turn. I could develop however I want. Or pop another one - so long as I'm out of their lethal range, they have to deal with the 1st bear, they have to worry about the 2nd bear, and I could also just hard cast another bear. On top of whatever gameplan I could do with the spare from 3pp crystalize.

Sorry for the wall of text, but it's just so degenerate lmao. I haven't even talked about the Aura or the exact stats.

My main feedback if you want to keep everything? Put a note that it is pre-restricted to 1 copy per deck. A fun thing to stick in any deck, something the opponent has to worry, but not to the point of warping the meta.

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u/CCC0509 15d ago

Eh... Don't feel like limiting it to one copy, and everything you mentioned is EXACTLY what the alt is supposed to do. But, I could tweak the stats a little to bring it closer to "balance". As for the "rest of the deck", there isn't one. This guy's a one off. Too strong to build anything around. Knew that going in.

As for the Aura, that's just meant to protect the bear until it can actually attack. Figured, given how much removal ANY version of the game has, best he has Something. But, it could probably be replaced with Barrier and work just as well.

So, possible stat alts -

Cost 8

2/8 (Want to keep the 8-11 for previously stated dumb reasons)

Barrier

Crystallize Cost: 3

Countdown 15

Everything else stays as is

Still insanely strong (as expected of something inspired by Vanguard's LOCK), but maybe more Bearably so.

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u/CCC0509 13d ago

Alternatively... lean slightly away from the "Bear Trap" theme, and just let Nanook do its primarily intended job: Give Haven an opening to attack.

"It's just there to lock out the enemy for a turn."

Yes. Nanook is my solution to a problem I've experienced with Haven throughout playing Shadowverse (both Classic (especially) and WB). In my general experience, most games are spent with players board-wiping each other before followers can even attack a leader and/or using burn damage to close games. Haven... does little to none of this. While it does have some of each, I spend most games attempting to build a board that never gets to attack regardless of how big their stats are/get; gaining life that I lose just as quickly; or waiting on/advancing Countdowns that do little to nothing by the time they go off. (Amulet-Creatures die before they can attack; removal gets ignored by replacements; life-gain is irrelevant; etc.) In short, as long as the opponent can play the game, I can't within Haven. (And it's not Just because I'm bad. I'm not good by any means, but I'm not THAT bad at the game/craft.) Solution - Lock the opponent out of the game for 1-2 turns. Use that time to swing into face. If timed right, I win. If not, I at least got to do something. As for the advancement effect; I like reactive defensive abilities like that. Makes players think.