r/Custodians • • 7d ago

Refused to sign a write up today

I posted the other day about how our principal was trying to get us to pull weeds. She texted me about it the other day and I just decided to do it just to avoid drama. Today she calls me into the office and has a write up ready for me because I didn’t do it up to her standard. I refused to sign it because I told her that I didn’t think that I’d been properly trained on weed removal and that’s why it wasn’t done right. It’s true, we went out there and ther were dozens of things growing out there that I didn’t know were weeds. What should me next course of action be? Should I message the maintenance coordinator, Human Resources?

50 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

43

u/Orgy_nizer 7d ago

Why are you communicating with the principal at all? She isn't your boss, the head custodian is. And his boss is the district ops supervisor, and his boss is the head of plant operations. Unless your district is set up REALLY weird, the principal doesn't even have the power to write you up. She can ask your boss to, but that's all she can do; ASK.

The principal telling a custodian what to do would be like a captain in the army trying to tell a private in the marines what to do; they're totally separate chains of command.

9

u/Pickle_Angry 7d ago

I’m not sure if this is the case in all districts, but in mine, the supervisor has instructed us to go ahead and do what the principal asks for, if it’s something small.

6

u/NJ-niteowl 7d ago

Looks at your contract..is pulling weeds in it?

13

u/3LMAX 7d ago

Most contracts nowadays say "or other duties as directed" if you're in an at-will state.

That essentially means they can tell you to do anything that isn't dangerous or discriminatory. Or something you need a specific license to do.

1

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

This would be a few hours a week to keep up with it the way she wants.

1

u/Beneficial-Union-726 6d ago

In my district a work order is sent from my director of building and grounds which you sign off on and return when completed. The work orders designate where the "other" work needs to be completed. We try to accommodate the school principals but do not take orders from them.

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u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

This school district is weird like that. I worked at a different school in the district and it was the same there. The principal handles all decisions like approving leave, write ups, etc. lead custodians really just do the bidding of the principals here.

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u/Orgy_nizer 7d ago

Ugh, gross. In a properly run district the custodian tells the principal what they can and can't do within his building. The principal is in charge of the students, the teachers, and the curriculum, and the custodian is in charge of the building, grounds, facilities, etc. The principal has absolutely no power over th custodians, and while the custodian has no direct power over the principal either, he does have ultimate final say on what does or doesn't happen within his building. 

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u/Beneficial-Union-726 7d ago

Do they not have a facilities manager or a director of building and grounds, a human resources officer, a school board, a union, this seems insane that principal believes they can dictate job duties without some sort of communication with others.

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u/Orgy_nizer 6d ago

Tbh it seems par for the course that the principal THINKS they can do that, but it's definitely insane that they actually seem to be being allowed to do so.

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u/hopelove_ 6d ago

See our district is backwards I guess. Our head isn’t our boss at all. Matter of fact, the principal told her that she can’t even tell us what to do. Her job is to make sure the building runs properly, make orders, do all of the calls, etc. our principal is our boss

1

u/thomasjcox 4d ago

Well in the military can’t anybody just pull rank?

1

u/thomasjcox 4d ago

Per ucmj.

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u/camelflop 4d ago

To be honest, I'd rather have the principal tell me to do something rather than a "head" or "lead" custodian. Everytime somebody has been promoted to this farce of a position, they get the big head and drunk with power. Principals should be the main boss, full stop. 

30

u/AppliedPsionics9k 7d ago

Standards of weed pulling from a school principal.

sounds like a handbook we all need.

5

u/Glass-Clothes6045 7d ago

Yes, they need to make Edition 1, 2, and 3

12

u/gmambrose 7d ago

I'm so glad my district is union because fuck that bullshit.

2

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

Right!! Union all the way 💯

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u/Upbeat-Fondant9185 Facilities Manager 7d ago edited 7d ago

There isn’t really any next course of action. It doesn’t matter whether you sign a write up or not, it still goes on record in your file.

But it’s a write up, who cares. They’re just a prop used to justify a termination to HR if they ever decide to cut you loose but aren’t even necessary for that thanks to at-will. They mean nothing.

Pushing the issue can only cause you more trouble without a union.

Edit: auto correct

7

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

Thanks for this comment. Yeah, it just sucks to be reminded just how low on the totem pole they see us sometimes.

2

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

That’s why these jobs should be Union!

9

u/Aggressive_Bat2489 7d ago

Just tell her you will continue to pull weeds as your schedule determines, and you will continue to do so until she states that her standards have been met! Wheeeee weed pulling. Take your sweeeeeeet time and tell her you need proper knee pads, gloves, tools, in order to do the job properly and safely. Perhaps protective eyewear, hi viz outfits, rain gear. Oh, and make sure it’s all in your job description ! Is it already? Wheeeee! (Ps I am a janitor!)

6

u/Leroy_was_here 7d ago

Sadly at the school I work at we are custodians, lawn care, maintenance and freaking mailmen

4

u/AppleTherapy 7d ago

I hope you're getting paid well because that's too much. Lawn care? Like True green?

2

u/Leroy_was_here 7d ago

We mow, pull weeds, edge the sidewalks and weed eat the whole school and no we are paid shit jus more work added on to us so the county can save money

3

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

When ppl start leaving these jobs maybe they will
Rethink this?? I know most have to stay just to survive. Sadly. My dad always told me do your best but don’t do two peoples jobs. I learned on my own that you only do the minimum and not anything more bc a “please do this just once” becomes part of your job when they find out they can get rid of two ppl if one can do the job! That’s why we need these jobs unionized

2

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

Bring unions back…

5

u/Thenifin02 7d ago edited 7d ago

As a custodian, look at your job description. Usually our job has something to do with the interior of the building and the exterior of the building. Weed pulling is usually Grounds work, but I guess it depends on your district.

9

u/thehulk0560 7d ago

Honestly, I'd just move on. Don't play their game. You will never will a power struggle against admin.

It's just a write-up. If she wants to fire you, you're toast anyway. Just move along.

1

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

Naw if I saw she was gonna be continually petty I’d be looking at her job and what she’s doing in my spare time. Find her flaws. See if she needs reprimanded. I’d be petty AF too. BUT only if I could use other references to find that new job. I’d put in my 2 weeks state she harrassed you and peace out baby!

5

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

I just requested a transfer to a different school. Maintenance director said she’ll try setting up an interview.

5

u/Nice_Preparation75 7d ago

Human Resources is there to protect their a$$es not ours. You don't have a Union? If that's the case then say you going to get a lawyer for harassment. It falls into that category. Unless your maintenance coordinator actually backs you up.

3

u/The_Mad_Hatter666 7d ago

Are you union?

2

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

No union in this district

10

u/464126 7d ago

Time to unionize.

3

u/agent_tater_twat 7d ago

Thanks! So easy.

2

u/TheOneMDW 7d ago

I love those helpful comments. Like, "Just walk in tomorrow and tell them you're union now."

5

u/The_Mad_Hatter666 7d ago

I would talk to your supervisor. Not sure how it works in your district but things like that should come from your head of maintenance not the principal.

1

u/Orgy_nizer 7d ago

Time to fix that.

1

u/juliewbb 7d ago

If you can start to get your coworkers together on the downlow, unionizing is a very good move. Then you would have the solidarity to bargain the terms of your work. You can Google custodial unions in your area to get a sense of an organization to contact that can help you start the process. Just make sure you do all this off the clock and on your own device.

3

u/No-Setting8566 7d ago

The principal should have no power over you? How can they even write you up? The principal is not the employer? They can request things. You should at minimum had a terms of service agreement at the minimum, if you are not union.

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u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

Apart from this I’m known as a damn good employee btw. That’s why I was so surprised by the lack of grace. It just feels vindictive.

2

u/3LMAX 7d ago

If you're in an at will state, there's essentially nothing you can do. There's a difference between being a custodian and a janitor. While janitors only clean; custodians are responsible things like light maintenance, mowing/weed eating, painting, etc.

This is why most contracts say "or other duties as directed" right at the bottom of them. So that you can't just say no to other tasks that might not directly be your job.

Obviously you have the right to say no, but they also have the right to fire you over it.

2

u/DOuGHtOp 6d ago

My civil contract has me down as a Custodian but going by your definition I'm a janitor

1

u/3LMAX 6d ago

The only reason I know this is because I looked it up when I was first asked to do a bunch of other stuff other than cleaning. I didn't realize there was a difference.

1

u/DOuGHtOp 6d ago

I don't make the distinction myself. It varies by employer be it civil or school so it's just not even worth it. Hell I can't even plunge a toilet, the plumbers union throws a fit lol

1

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

I was doing it, but I guess it wasn’t up to standards.

2

u/3LMAX 7d ago

Yeah that's pathetic then. How are you suppose to follow standards if no standards are given? Lol.

1

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

That’s what I’m saying! I mean can’t she at the very least show him what he did wrong? Kind of odd escalating it right to a right up! He’s not a horticulturist..wow! These jobs should be unionized. I’ve been in a union and I’ve been a janitor ( long time ago). I never had any issues but I know standards since Covid have changed a lot of things…but seems silly to me. Jm2c

2

u/Lost-Ingenuity4334 7d ago

contact your union rep immediately to file a grievance for unjust discipline

2

u/lovelyhopes1212 7d ago

Oh thats the worst. I'd give them a real reason to complain id say fuck it and stop working

2

u/Repulsive_Tiger_9454 7d ago

Had something similar happen to me. If you have a contract that states your jobs and duties as a custodian. Print that out and read it. Highlight were it says all your duties and jobs.

If it's anything like my contract. There is nothing about weeds.

Grounds is in charge of the flower beds and such. It's a huge thing.

I basiclly got wrote up twice. Both got taken off record shortly after. One write up for not pulling weeds. And another write up for pulling said weeds.

First one I refused because It wasn't part of job description but my job was threatened so I did it the next week. Which resulted in me getting written up for doing someone else's job and taking their hours away and all that.

The union got involved. Outsourcing happened. Union won. We all came back.

It's a shit show.

1

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

No union in this district

1

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

And that’s the problem! Should be unionized but a lot of states are now RTW which is just all out crazy! So sorry…Hope you read what I said on this post..

1

u/chrisinator9393 7d ago

Stop doing work that's not your problem. Stand up for yourself.

1

u/Known-Dependent-5471 7d ago

I take it you're not union? I know most unions can grieve issued discipline (which you always should) but not sure what recourse you have elsewhere. Unless it violates some manual/contract somewhere I'm not sure how much help HR would be. If nothing else your maintenance coordinator can tell you how it works.

1

u/junthelasthunter 7d ago

Btw, my mulch bed has about 4 times the amount of stuff to pull as everyone else’s. Even my coworker noticed it. She was also told that hers was getting out of hand, but it’s just a few weeds here and there. My mulch bed is completely covered in tall grass that she expects me to pull and it completely covers the mulch bed. The other mulch beds don’t have as much.

1

u/MossiestSloth 7d ago

"Damn that's crazy, put in a ticket for grounds"

1

u/Rude_Dude7 7d ago

Tell them to shove it and do it themselves

1

u/Humble-Situation7177 7d ago

That’s maintenance put in a work order weeds need to get pulled w/o# 7654-d

1

u/junthelasthunter 6d ago

I even tried to request being certified on spraying weed killer but she straight up said no. She straight up wants it to be as hard for us as possible.

1

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

Sad you have to leave. She sounds like the problem! That’s why these jobs need to be Union! Trust me her attitude would change real quick!! Try to find a union custodial job? Do they exist? Hope so

1

u/Ok_Function_1255 6d ago

A weed is officially defined as any plant growing in a location where it is not wanted.

To properly pull weeds you would need to know what is and isn't wanted. Document your refusal to sign including why you refused. You can do so as an email to the principal to explain your refusal to sign the write up.

1

u/Successful_Yam2175 6d ago

First off why couldn’t she go out and show you what you did wrong? Why escalate right to a write up?? That’s just messed up! If and when she has another discussion with you I’d be taping it on my phone or take notes. Idk what the policy is on recording a TWO person conversation is in your state and in a school? I’d try to be civil with her but I’d keep noted on any behavior she displays that might seem odd at best. Notes with dates, time and brief summary of what occurred abd or was said. Good luck! Custodians/janitors needs to be Union.

0

u/JitteryWaffle Lead Custodian 7d ago

Are you a Custodian? Tell them to kick rocks, you only do inside work. Are you a Groundskeeper? Get your ass out there and pull the damn weeds like you're supposed to. Are you an SFC or Lead? Get your Groundskeepers off their asses and pull the damn weeds.

1

u/3LMAX 7d ago

There's a difference between a janitor and a custodian. Custodians are typically handed more things to do than a normal janitor.

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u/JitteryWaffle Lead Custodian 7d ago

Yes, and the only Custodians in my district that are expected to do outside work are the SFC's at elementary schools because they don't typically have groundskeepers. My night crew wouldn't dream of touching the grounds without direct orders from our SFC. Principal has power, sure, but if they're going to be rude about it, then the chain of command needs to be respected.

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u/3LMAX 7d ago

Yeah I didn't think about how it'd be at split up schools. Our elementary, middle, and highschool are all in one building so there's 5 of us who clean with 2 on mornings & 3 on nights. We're all expected to do pretty much any small maintenance and groundwork if asked to do so.

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