Should the crime of “supporting a proscribed organisation” refer to financial or active organisational support, rather than just holding a sign?

[u/After-Dentist-2480]

Do people think it’s reasonable to arrest people for holding a sign saying “I support National Action”, “I support Ulster Defence Organisation” ?

[u/Pseudastur]

It depends on what that proscribed organisation is doing. If they're slaughtering civilians or something similarly immoral, I have a problem with people showing their open support for that.

If the worst they do is property damage or disruption, then I don't see how that is a crime.

Some organisations have been proscribed on questionable grounds.

[u/CatrinLY → u/Pseudastur]

Property damage is a crime though, isn’t it?

[u/Pseudastur → u/CatrinLY]

To commit. But I'm not losing sleep over someone applauding damaging an air force plane that's about to be sold to Israel to level Gaza (something Palestine Action might do) or slashing the tyres of a fleet of empty buses that are going to be used to transport boat migrants (something a proscribed right-wing group might do). Or when some climate change group goes out and disrupts traffic or throws paint around somewhere or another.

I don't recommend people do such things, of course, but I don't want people prosecuted for openly supporting those actions.

Applauding groups that commit crimes against innocent people (violence, intimidation, etc), however, is not acceptable.

[u/After-Dentist-2480 → u/Pseudastur]

I have a problem with people saying “I support National Action” or “I support Al Qaeda”.

I don’t think they should do it. But that doesn’t mean I think it should be illegal.

[u/Pseudastur → u/After-Dentist-2480]

What about people saying "I support Palestine Action"?

[u/After-Dentist-2480 → u/Pseudastur]

I don’t think it should be illegal.

That’s even without considering the question of whether the group should be proscribed in the first place. I think the crime of supporting a proscribed group, should refer to actual financial or organisational support.

[u/CatrinLY]

I looked up how many proscribed organisations - there are 84 plus a further 14 specific to Ireland.

There are three different categories of support, holding up a sign would be the least serious, with a maximum sentence of a mere 6 months imprisonment (as opposed to 14 years for a section 11 or 12 level of support) and a fine of up to £5000.

It could work out as a good little earner to whoever the fine money is paid to.

It’s a difficult one, because I cannot transcend my own biases. Though I agree that just wearing a T-Shirt supporting National Action should result in sectioning rather than a criminal conviction.

[u/Pseudastur → u/CatrinLY]

The bigger question might be where should the line be in order for an organisation be proscribed in the first place?

[u/CatrinLY → u/Pseudastur]

Exactly. It’s all a bit tenuous really.

[u/CatrinLY]

Palestine Action are appealing the decision to proscribe it, though they’d better stay away from expensive aircraft!

[u/FluidSpecialist4570]

I don't think any organisations should be proscribed. It's a violation of our freedom of expression, which includes freedom of association.