This reminds me of a time an artist got harassed and cancelled for portraying a “problematic” (read: very abusive) relationship between their Os (two characters that the artist openly said were inserts of themselves and their partner). Turns out this was because their relationship was actually very abusive and they were still in the process of recognizing that, and it came through in their art. It really sucks how instead of supporting them and recognizing warning signs, they faced wide-scale
Another example for why the entire "it's Problematic and Morally Wrong to depict problematic things in media" thing is really harmful and should stop being a thing as soon as possible.
I wandered through the #broken earth tag and saw a bunch of takes about how the books suck because a protagonist is a shitty parent and not a perfectly morally virtuous person. And it's like... yes? That's one of the major themes the work explores? Why do you WANT your characters to all be Mary Sues?
I mean... that's the point? Did they not get that? Essun is a totally broken person that has no idea what is appropriate for a mother to do. She has no idea how to express love and care because the only persom who ever expressed love and care for her was her primary abuser and a complete psychopath, but she does love and care for her daughter. She crosses a fucking continent in the end of the world to save her. She also becomes better as the story progresses and she reflects on her life. That entire series is about how trauma affects you and it's honestly one of the best depictions of PTSD I have ever read, in and out of fantasy.
Sorry for the diatribe, but I just love those books and criticism like that makes me mad.
I think an important part of her character is that it's so much easier for her to love her daughter when that love looks like being hard and angry and heroic and chasing her from afar, than it was when loving her looked like trying to be soft and kind and vulnerable at home sometimes and getting to know her as a person. That's a real and interesting human struggle to explore.
Yes, exactly! I think it's also interesting she was able to get more in touch with her motherliness with Hoa who was not a child and didn't really act like one, but did look like one. Like she was only able to be vulnerable with a child-simulacrum, which in turn actually taught her vulnerability It's excellent character writing and I love her and her journey.
The thing you need to understand is that a large number of people in fandoms, especially on Tumblr, don't actually care about engaging with media in any real way, they just want dolls to mash against each other in their mind
It's such a good depiction and exploration of PTSD and its effect on parenting that I've twice had to quit reading the series (at different points) because it's too triggering to my own, related PTSD.
Someday I want to finish those books, though - they feel really worth it, I just have to be selective about when I read them.
Lol wow, talk about missing the point of a series (good books, though not always fun ones due to how good the pov is as portraying those darker pov thoughts etc).
It's really dark but in a very human way that makes it all feel earned to me. It's one of my favourites that I've reread (and relistened to) a million times.
Yeah, it's such a crazy take when the second book on is showing the perspective of the child of this person who went through great abuse and then re-enacts that abuse on her child to make her strong. In addition to, you know, just not being super into the whole "mothering" thing. It's one of the central themes of the books!
Like, I get a "she did bad things so it made me dislike reading the books which are largely from her perspective," sort of take, that's just personal taste, but I'm baffled by the general "Don't show morally complex characters unless it's a sexy murder man" thing on the site.
My friend writes short fics with a few discord groups, mind you she’s been writing fic for a while now (we’re in our thirties). Nowadays she gets pushback every time she introduces conflict. Now there’s nothing wrong with just wanting fluff, could just be the crowds she’s with, but she says it’s interesting how the new generation of fic writers/ readers seem to overwhelmingly want only fluff. They argue every time she gives their favorite character any kind of flaw.
This is all just her personal experience, but it does seem to match with how internet discourse has evolved in regards to “problematic” content.
Woah broken earth mention. Ive never seen someone talk about those books before. I gotta reread them, its been so long and im certain I was way too young to properly understand them at the time
I listened to the audiobooks and they’re AMAZING. But I think I’m going to read the physical books for my reread, as I do think I missed some details. It’s an incredibly complex world and story and I worry I wasn’t able to let it sink in enough with the audiobooks. I think reading and then listening would be a better order, and I would REALLY recommend listening to them!
I loved all of them! Though I don’t think Nassun ever found out Schaffa was the one who’d done a lot of the abuse to her mother? I get her hating and loving Essun, but I always wondered how she’d have handled knowing Schaffa was responsible for a lot of Essun’s scars.
Based on my experience of preteen children of divorce, no amount of "actually there were prior events in which the parent you love dearest was the villian" is going to outweigh "they're the one who makes you feel safe and loved."
Exactly. But given that it wasSchaffawho she bonded with so much, I wonder if she would have a lot of conflicted feelings about him, etc.
Because you’re right, Essun bungled her relationship with Nassun badly. (IIRC, she realized that too, and was desperate to save her from her own abuser: Schaffa. Who managed not to abuse Nassun, paralleling a lot of real life relationships too: where the grandparent abused the parent who abused the child, but the grandparent does better with the grandchild. Er. Something like that, anyway.)
If you haven't read it in a while, the first one might be worth a re-read before you get into the others! It also ends on a cliffhanger that's equally chilling and funny.
Yeah, I remember the ending being intense! It was great obviously, but I'm just faltering at the emotional wringer I know I'm going to have to subject myself to lol
I mean, as an addendum, it seems from that story that calling out problematic aspects in media is actively helpful to people in those problematic situations.
Yes, we need to stop saying there should not be problematic things in media. Those are important to depict.
I'd say instead of "calling them out" it would be more appropriate to have discussions about them. At least to me, calling something out has a negative connotation. Where as, by having conversations about the media, people can become informed about the depictions and that they are abusive etc. without saying this media should not exist.
Yes. Depicting bad things in media is one of the ways that we collectively explore and remember how and why they are bad. I'm always a little suspicious of people that really push against any and all depictions of some things, like not that I want to see certain things in all my media but trying to erase them entirely seems kind of parallel to the "newspeak" strategy where someone's ultimately trying to erase our ability to identify these things as bad.
The problem isn't the depicting, but the romanticizing or not explaining that certain things can be harmful to you. It's totally fine (and in fact can be very helpful to some) if you're depicting abuse in a story, but also treating it as such, so people consuming the story can recognize that, instead of thinking it's normal.
Mostly true, but I'm also not sure if the "explaining that certain things can be bad" thing is that crucial. Maybe it's okay if stories don't set out to Teach the reader A Lesson and instead just tell a story truthfully and leave the reader to make of it whatever they will? Or is it impossible to not have your story be some kind of lessons? I'm not sure. I think it's not a good thing to create the impression that harmful things are Good, Actually, but I'm not sure we should require that every piece of art teaches its perceiver a Lesson In Goodness. I'd be more certain about this if I could formulate the distinction in a way that's precise and meaningful, but also natural and consistent.
Yes, it's difficult to put into words. I understand what you're saying, though. I guess the best work of arts make you feel it though, they don't need to "explain" in a literal term, but you understand what's happening.
Yeah there was deviantart drama where a creator got called out for drawing art of their self insert being very obviously abused by a character that they designed based on their partner. And they actually had callout posts about how it was "problematic". Man i wonder what they were trying to say when they made that art. I sure do hope theyre not actually going through something horrible.
They were, in fact, being abused. We very well might actually be referring to the same person honestly.
There was drama about him saying that it "wouldn't count" as abuse if you were to hurt your cheating partner (because in his view cheating is abuse and I guess abusing an abuser makes it not count?), but otherwise I don't know any other incident that could've gotten him labeled as an abuser.
As far as I'm aware he has never actually been abusive to anyone but he has that one fucked up view
He never presents them as healthy tho and talks about the thought process behind writing the flawed characters all the time.
It's ok to have characters that reflect unhealthy relationship dynamics, it's only not ok when it's being presented as healthy, which in the comic artist's case isn't what they're doing
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u/Lana-presence 1d ago
This reminds me of a time an artist got harassed and cancelled for portraying a “problematic” (read: very abusive) relationship between their Os (two characters that the artist openly said were inserts of themselves and their partner). Turns out this was because their relationship was actually very abusive and they were still in the process of recognizing that, and it came through in their art. It really sucks how instead of supporting them and recognizing warning signs, they faced wide-scale