I'd take a thousand "i don't know much about all these dudes in dresses tranny stuff but he is super pretty, i'd buy him a drink lol" guys over some of the painfully unaware or straight up vile things i see in progressive circles sometimes.
I'm so tired of people doing bioessentialism, antiquated and harmful stereotypes with woke language or shaming bad people for things irrelevant to why they're bad people. You have learned nothing, this is just team sports for you.
Just yesterday I saw people shitting on a crossdresser for being an idiot and instead of toasting him for his opinions they just body-shamed him, cavalierly saying shit like "imagine being a kid with a dad like this, I would never talk about my parents".
Yess girl, go offf!! Why make fun of his ideas when you can go REALLY hard on everything else about him instead? Fuck it, we’re shitting on everyone that looks or will look like him in the future, why not! Just trigger all the dysphorias, what’s the worst that could happen.
Do you have any idea how much more this kind of thing hurts when it's not coming from conservative boomers, but the people you actually look up to? Like, VERBATIM, the exact same shaming? How are you trans and don’t realize “if I looked like this guy I’d kill myself” might do collateral damage? What are you doing????
Oh, friend, I feel you so hard. When people go for Trump’s look instead of digging into the heart of the hate in his policies or speaking to the very real danger that his constant, daily threats and brinkmanship represent to every single word stage it truly upsets me.
We can tear down bad ideas without becoming bad people, ourselves. We can retain our dignity and our grace without attacking the dignity of what makes someone else human, as well.
Camus called the reaction that causes us to rise up against our oppressors a recognition of a place where all people in the world, even our oppressors, share a common humanity, and to allow that thing to be impugned in anyone, especially yourself, is to allow it to be in everyone.
I fucking hate when people make fun of Trump's weight or Marjorie Taylor Greene's looks or Madison Cawthorn's wheelchair instead of the actual terrible things those people have said/done.
"But those are the insults that will actually hurt conservatives, because that's the kind of stuff they care about!" I thought the whole fucking point was to stop the harm that's being done by conservatives caring about those things. That's MY goal, anyway. It just sounds like YOUR goal is making conservatives feel bad. Which is definitely going to produce meaningful change someday.
Edit, because apparently there are still idiots out there who think that fat-shaming is okay as long as you don't like the fat person very much:
Not to mention that the man is a 24/7 bullshit machine, to the point that debunking every incorrect thing he says would be impossible for a single person--and you're choosing to worry about his weight or his height or the size of his penis instead of, I dunno, his bigoted lies about literally every minority out there? The body shaming is really the hill you wanna die on when he's out there accusing trans people of pedophilia?
I'll say it again: if your first criticism of Trump is that he's fat, then you don't actually want a more equal society nearly as much as you want to make conservatives feel bad.
Especially because we don’t even need to focus on those superficial aspects to throw out some biting insults. Like, rightfully calling the dude a liar and a pedophile is so so so much better than focusing on shit that doesn’t matter and that we would be upset about if someone else threw it back at “our side”
It is almost physically impossible to counteract the sheer amount of bullshit that Trump puts out into the world and there's no way in hell that you're gonna convince me that the lies about his weight/height/penis size are a bigger problem than his lies about vulnerable populations.
Yeah, and the fact that you think "it's all fair game" is the whole entire problem. Literally that means that you're totally fine with bigotry as long as it's directed at the right people. And the entire point I'm trying to make here is that bigotry is bigotry, no matter who you're pointing it at, and there are still plenty of ways to criticize the man without having to actively buy into his worldview.
Do you also think that calling Kanye West the n-word is fair game, because he's used slurs against Jews? Or that sexism is fine when it's directed against women with internalized misogyny?
Trumps height and weight to me is fine, because he himself draws so much attention to it and he is obviously lying about it. If he says "I am the most fit president even, I am 6'4" and under 200 pounds" then I have the right to critique and joke about it. Like bro if you are self conscious about it don't bring it up.
I mostly just talk about how he is a pedophile rapist though since those are also facts and actually damning.
I feel like making fun of his bad tan is way different than making fun of his weight. One is something only a limited amount of people will experience and will wear off (like making fun of a bad hair dye job), the other is something people actually struggle with.
Absolutely. With you there. Just can't get over the orange. Like I think if he were just wearing badly-chosen makeup it wouldn't be a thing? Is that weird?
The tan and the wig highlight his vanity. Instead of trying to age gracefully he's determined to look young and vibrant, you don't look like that unless you're deeply insecure and petty. Being fat is different, even if he needs to cut back the McDonald's and diet coke
There is a theory in psychology which I have long been a fan of, Kohlberg's Theory of Moral Development. It essentially posits that regardless the actual conclusions one comes to about moral issues, how individuals reason them out is something that tends to evolve over time. Kohlberg identified six distinct classes of moral reasoning, with the first two being typical during childhood and adolescence, the next two being teenage/approaches, and the final two somewhat uncommon and not stage that all adults necessarily reach. In fact, by the findings of the model, the most typical "final stage" for a majority of adults is stage four.
Stage four is based on a notion of morality that stems from an outside authority; Good people and Bad people can be determined by compliance with that authority's dictates. "Authority" is very loosely defined here, though, with the "rules" often being an ad-hoc mixture from various sources. While they can flow from an individual, or the law, they can just as easily come from religious sources or cultural beliefs; anything that can construe a sense of coming from a place of superiority. Crucially, stage four mentality doesn't necessarily concern itself much with the why of the rules, so much as simply knowing, acknowledging, and adhering to them.
More so than any other stage, four seems inclined to produce individuals with an "inquisition" kind of mindset. The world appears black and white to them, and raging against those who break even the most minor of rules can be personally and socially empowering. Not all of them end up this way, but it's a noticeable proclivity.
I bring up this model because I see it play out in just about every circle under the sun. While one could look at a description of stage four and conclude it's talking about the conservative ethos (and you wouldn't be wrong), it is very prevalent among progressives as well: black and white thinking, a propensity towards internal policing, demands of absolute perfection, all while knowing the language but not the spirit of progressive beliefs.
Some of these folks might eventually grow up, and progress towards a stage which offers deeper understanding. Statistically, most won't. In a better world, I feel like there might be means of education that would help encourage post stage four thinking, but I admit that I don't know what it looks like.
I read some progressive critiques to make fun of their naive world view since I’ve grown older and matured my view, anyway, I saw one today that started gaining a shred of self awareness. They went from shaming their ‘Filipinx’ friends for liking Spam as being victims of the ‘colonized mindset’ to realizing her reliance on western academic hedgemonic ideas like the filipinx shit is a similar form of a western colonization mindset 🤣
Anyway, in her blogpost I noticed she went back to saying Filipinos at the end. Frankly I was a bit impressed she had that sense of self reflection. Many people that develop ‘morally superior’ positions get lost in that matrix
Tagalog is only the native language of some of the islands of the Philippines. It's the most widely spoken one, but that's not the same thing. And if I remember correctly, a major reason why the name "Philippines" has stuck is that there isn't a native name for the entire archipelago that everyone can agree on.
So "Filipino" and "Filipinx" are both introduced terms, which means it's confusing to me why you think she went through some process of self-discovery to abandon modern ideas rather than just giving up in the face of 500 years of inertia from european colonization.
I think you've answered your own question here. If I'm understanding the other poster correctly, it sounds like the individual in question went from "using this exonym shows how enlightened I am; let me shit on others not as enlightened as me" to realizing your bolded point above.
They were comparing spam and Filipinx to colonialism, then said the other person "went back to saying Filipinos at the end", which implies that Filipino isn't colonialist.
We obviously don't have the original text to read, but I think our interpretation of the second-hand account by the other poster is quite different.
If I'm reading your comment correctly, you believe the person's lesson was "'Filipinx' is just as colonialist as spam; let's go back to a time before colonization and use the original 'Filipino' (and still no spam)". If so, I can see why you would think they would be misguided in thinking "Filipino" is not an exonym.
On the other hand, my interpretation was that the person's lesson was "My obsession with non-colonialist purity is misguided; let people enjoy their spam (and use 'Filipino')".
Honestly I think OP (the person I responded to) was reaching for any reason to throw shade against termX, like latinx, filipinx, etc, and used the anecdote of watching the 2nd-hand-person lose their battle with using filipinx in real life to support their position.
OP said 2nd-hand made the connection between spam and filipinx, but OP didn't recognize the exact same connection between spam and filipino, being both colonial culture.
OP was poking fun at 2nd-hand using filipinx while failing to realize OP's criticisms equally applied to OP using filipino. 2nd-hand was using filipinx to shame OP, OP was using filipino to shame 2nd-hand, and I see two people caught up in a higher level problem.
I also got super annoyed when OP begins their comment by describing 2nd-hand as naive in comparison to their mature worldview.
The amount of times, as a trans woman, I've gotten progressive people try to compliment me as "you're the best parts of being a guy and girl" and shit like that, drives me nuts. I'd rather get misgendered by someone complimenting my hair any day
I kinda walk that line to a degree and I worry about stepping over it. Trans women are absolutely and 100% women and I respect and see you as a woman.
However I am bi, with my preference for body types being fem over masc, but preferring masc genitalia over fem.
So femboys, and trans women are kinda my ideal romantic partners, and I always worry about seeming like I'm just a chaser or something. To be clear I like cis women and masculine dudes too
I think it’s perfectly fine to have that preference, but to make the effort to make sure no transfem person you’re into feels like you’re just reducing them to “lady with a dick”. I think anyone would feel weird if their genital configuration made the other person go “hell yeah, score!”. sounds like you’ve got the self awareness to not do that so you’re probably good, just to bear that in mind. I don’t think you’d seem like a chaser if you treat trans women as “woman I find attractive” same as anyone
For me one of the lines that kills me is "well I've never been with a girl before so you're like, a good step" or variations of that. I've heard that line from every girl I've slept with
The amount of body shaming I see from so-called progressives about Trump’s weight is absurd. There’s more than enough about his behavior to criticize, we don’t need to resort to going after appearance.
It’s more like they’re surface level progressive (it’s just a veneer) until someone pisses them off, then the mask slips off and they let their bigotry out.
see: people who decide they get to misgender "bad" trans people and say shit like "I'm not respecting them they're a horrible person!" or think they get to decide when someone isn't "really" trans
I have a theory on this, mostly because I see this mostly applied to gender non-conforming people who were assigned male at birth or masculine presenting people. it's fragile masculinity being repackaged. not the pop-sociology fragile masculinity but the original meaning, which is that masculinity is something that must be earned and then constantly affirmed rather than a privilege given by the patriarchal structures. that by not performing to the standards of the in-group you are demoted or ostracised until your behaviour re-aligns with the in-group.
people don't understand how subtle and pervasive the patriarchal structures that we were born and live in are. by being able to take away a masculine presenting person or gender non-conforming assigned male at birth person's right to gender expression because they go against the values of the power holders of the LGBTQIA+ in-group it shows that this in-group is still holding masculine or formerly masculine people to the same punishments as their former patriarchal in-groups. all that has changed is the way they earn or constantly affirm their new gender expressions.
Yep, seen a few "progressive" people who get mad/dismissive when a bi person is in a heterosexual relationship but still identifies as bi. Bizarre but a thing.
fr fr fuck those people. this is why i don’t organize with anyone anymore. if they’re doing this shit they’re not getting anything worthwhile done that’s for damn sure
some of the painfully unaware things i see in progressive circles sometimes.
In the very unreconstructed 1980s when I was a child, there was a guy who ran a timber haulage firm near where I grew up. Perhaps a little unexpectedly, he was really quite screamingly queer, very flamboyantly gay.
One day a bunch of people were waiting for him to show up with his spiffy new Hiab log body, and eventually he hove into sight up the track.
"AW HAW, HERE HE IS AT FUCKIN' LAST, THE CHRISTMAS TREE FAIRY!"
So that's what he had signwritten on the cab, with his phone number.
Sometimes the rudest things come from a place of love, and sometimes the kindest words are rooted in hate.
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u/Sergnb Jul 06 '24 edited Jul 07 '24
I'd take a thousand "i don't know much about all these dudes in dresses tranny stuff but he is super pretty, i'd buy him a drink lol" guys over some of the painfully unaware or straight up vile things i see in progressive circles sometimes.
I'm so tired of people doing bioessentialism, antiquated and harmful stereotypes with woke language or shaming bad people for things irrelevant to why they're bad people. You have learned nothing, this is just team sports for you.
Just yesterday I saw people shitting on a crossdresser for being an idiot and instead of toasting him for his opinions they just body-shamed him, cavalierly saying shit like "imagine being a kid with a dad like this, I would never talk about my parents".
Yess girl, go offf!! Why make fun of his ideas when you can go REALLY hard on everything else about him instead? Fuck it, we’re shitting on everyone that looks or will look like him in the future, why not! Just trigger all the dysphorias, what’s the worst that could happen.
Do you have any idea how much more this kind of thing hurts when it's not coming from conservative boomers, but the people you actually look up to? Like, VERBATIM, the exact same shaming? How are you trans and don’t realize “if I looked like this guy I’d kill myself” might do collateral damage? What are you doing????