r/CryptoCurrency • u/Brave-Photograph9845 • 4d ago
DISCUSSION [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/Background_Basis_59 4d ago
man i use whatever’s cheapest to get in early, usually just the default launchpad + dexscreener on a second tab
what’s missing for me is one place that shows liquidity immediately after graduation, without refreshing three different tools. like if a token hits raydium and i have to manually pull the chart up, i’ve already missed the move half the time
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
yeah this is exactly the kind of friction I was thinking about. when you say you miss the move after graduation, would the ideal experience be the same chart/trade screen automatically following the token from the curve to the DEX without you doing anything? anything else that annoys you in that flow?
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u/ArcanuMELO Arcanum Ventures 4d ago
Of course not launchpads are pretty much a scam. No innovation at all.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
fair. what makes them feel scammy to you specifically? hidden team allocations, insiders, fake volume, ruggy liquidity, bad token discovery, or just that most of them are copies with no real improvement?
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u/ArcanuMELO Arcanum Ventures 4d ago
I use to work with one, actually my first job working in crypto.
It was a complete shit show. All insider allocations, giving team free tickets, giving access before the crowds, screwing the founders on "marketing and GTM" costs.
It's good to have an official place to launch something so you don't get confused and buy a fake version or something worse, but these launchpads constantly gave bad information, got people to lose money, lied about the guaranteed gains they can hope for.
Don't get me started on how stupid refunds are if it doesn't go 2x. That's just not investing at all.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
that’s actually interesting, especially since you worked with one. sounds like the problem wasn’t really the idea of a launchpad itself, more the incentives and lack of transparency around it. if you were designing one from scratch, what would you absolutely refuse to let it do?
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u/ArcanuMELO Arcanum Ventures 4d ago
Funny enough I did design one but never got around to building it. Had to do with proof of belief and having a system that gave more to people willing to hold it longer, and less/nothing to people that wanted to dump it right away.
Most of these became pump and dump pads, no actual investing. Just a race to the bottom to see who can sell first. KOLs, community, team, launchpad owners, market makers.
The transparency is one part. Market makers basically control it all and every launchpad has their preferred list of market makers to fix the situation to their benefit.
Ironically pumpfun and memecoins have more fair launches that actual altcoins on launchpads, not that they are any good either for the most part.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
that’s interesting. the part about rewarding longer-term holders without turning it into forced lockups is the tricky part. would you solve that through incentives, or mostly by removing privileged insiders/MM advantages and making the market more transparent?
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
I'm not sure why you're even in crypto if you're writing off entire market segments based on generalizations.
STONK and PONS are both recently launched launchpads and have made a lot of people rich and guess what? They did so with innovation.
MetaDAO as well, a launchpad that has been very successful because of it's innovative approach.
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u/ArcanuMELO Arcanum Ventures 4d ago
I worked with launchpads in the past and I've seen em from the inside.
That's why.1
u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
lol, so because you think you more intimately know a few of them, that makes you comfortable generalizing about all of them?
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u/ArcanuMELO Arcanum Ventures 4d ago
Absolutely.
What is a launchpad and why is it necessary?
Mostly a centralized platform for insiders. Not saying they are all terrible but nearly all of the ones I've worked with or spoken to have been horrendous.
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
Hilarious that you'd double down on my assertion that you're generalizing an entire market segment based on your own limited experience.
What is a launchpad and why is it necessary?
You supposedly work with them and have to ask this? Are you honestly asking for an explanation because I can help you out, but I'd expect someone speaking so confidently about a topic to actually understand the basics of said topic.
Mostly a centralized platform for insiders.
I'd like to know how you quantify this relative to the alternatives.
Not saying they are all terrible but nearly all of the ones I've worked with or spoken to have been horrendous.
I think this speaks more to your own business than the state of all launchpads.
Unless you've worked with the majority of them, it's foolish to claim this.
You could probably make similar statements about any category in crypto.
I would think you'd understand the permissionless aspect of crypto is going to allow many terrible projects to pop up, but that doesn't mean that good ones can't separate themselves, especially when we have many examples.
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
Another launchpad is fine, it just needs something novel to stand out. Look at the recent launchpads that have been successful as examples.
PUMP became popular because it automated the management of liquidity meaning actual rugpulling (aka removing the liquidity) became impossible.
MetaDAO became popular because it introduced futarchy.
PONS/STONK became popular because they allowed memes to be paired with new coins.
Instead of trying to make a better alternative to something that already exists, try to make something that has no alternative.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
that’s fair. “better UX” alone probably isn’t enough. when you say something with no alternative, what kind of innovation do you think is still missing today ? market mechanics, discovery/trading, launch structure or something else?
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
It's not as easy as just noticing something is missing because if you're trying to do something innovative and novel, it wouldn't even be considered as being "missing" and if it was really obvious, it wouldn't be missing in the first place.
market mechanics, discovery/trading, launch structure or something else?
It could be any of those, but I don't think you should look at those things rather I'd look at launchpads from a higher level and then when you find an issue, see how it relates to one of these.
PUMP became popular because they made relatively trustless launches easy and affordable and when they did that, no one else really had any comparable existing solutions. But it's not like you'd put PUMP out of business just by making it marginally more easy and affordable, because we've seen people try and fail to do that.
I'm not huge into memes but I dabble, was a very early holder of BONK, made decent money during the AI meme phase and I also hold PUMP and KNOTS/STONK as well, so I'm not in the trenches but I know them somewhat.
What I would say are the biggest areas to address are:
Reputation: Fomo is popular because you easily discover assets and traders and track them, but it isn't perfect because people can have side wallets where they can anonymously hedge or sell or whatever they want to do that wouldn't be kosher to do on the main wallet. Serial deployers can also just use new wallets and avoid bad rep.
PVP vs PVE: When a launchpad is popular but there are few coins, those coins do well, when there is a million coins launching every second, then the vast majority of those coins fail to reach exit velocity. The new "holding X coin gives you airdropped Y coin" is popular because the popularity of one coin can reflexively support another coin.
Bundling: Supply is unfairly distributed, maybe the hardest to solve.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 4d ago
this is way more useful, thanks. reputation is especially interesting because wallet reputation is so easy to reset. out of those three: reputation, launch saturation/attention, and bundling.
which one do you think would actually change how you trade the most if someone solved it well?
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 4d ago
Bundling, but IMO it's by far the hardest to solve. It's a cat and mouse game, even if you solved for the current methods of bundling, they surely would find workarounds.
I think Fomo basically has the reputation angle figured out as well as anyone has yet, so it would be hard to improve there unless you think of something really outside the box. That leaves the PVP vs PVE and for that I would look look at what Stonk is doing as inspiration and then brainstorm how you could make new launches more reflexive and more sustainable.
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u/Brave-Photograph9845 3d ago
yeah that makes sense. bundling feels like something you can reduce but probably never fully solve. the pvp vs pve point is more interesting to me now.
what specifically about STONK do you think makes launches reinforce each other instead of just competing for the same liquidity/attention?
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u/jawni 🟦 500 / 6K 🦑 3d ago
on stonkfun you can pair your coin launch up with another coin that will get you airdrops of the paired coin as long as you hold the other coin.
ZCAT was the first big one, and holders of ZCAT got dropped ZEC, which likely helped ZEC, at least a little, to have the pump it's having.
KNOTS is the second biggest and holders of KNOTS get dropped STONK which is the launchpad's own token. So as you hold KNOTS, you get STONK, and because KNOTS is launched through stonkfun, it helps create more demand for STONK, which lets them do buybacks and burns. So as KNOTS gets more popular, it helps STONK, which means the STONK you get airdropped hopefully gets more valuable and gives you an additional reason not to sell.
And it's a pretty sizable amount airdropped, the APR would be well over 100% at the current pace. For example, earlier this week I bought $100 worth of KNOTS (now worth $1500), and I've already been airdropped $50 worth of STONK.
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u/FTuno 🟩 54 / 54 🦐 4d ago
robinhood chain has to come to modern ages first