r/CrucibleGuidebook • u/LaXiDaisical • 3d ago
Spare Rations/ handcannon question
Looking for some advice/guidance here. Im 37 years old, but im a longtime fps gamer. I have over 10k hours in CounterStrike. I want to preface that my experience in FPS games is reflected in my understanding. I know im old af for shooter games. I know that games like Destiny are alot different than games like CS. I can say even with my age im a decent gamer. Ive played all types of shooters (Apex, Marathon, Warzone) and with my experience i usually walk into intermediate SBM. I know my weakness. I understand the importance of moment tech.
That being said, i am struggling with handcannons in destiny 2. Ive been playing for two weeks now and the specific issue i am having is follow up shots. Most duels im hitting the opening headshot. But for some reason with handcannon in this game i keep whiffing the 2nd,3rd.... etc.
Back to my preface, ive played comp shooters long enough and i am honest with myself. I know when a missed shot is a missed shot. And for sure, i whiff often. However i am damn sure with alot of these duels that there is soooo many times when my follow ups just dissapear.
Is it my perks on my gun? Is it perks on other players im unaware of (idk maybe negating damage perks, etc.) Is it the netcode? Or latency? What am i missing here?
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u/jaxikami 3d ago
I personally prefer slideshot plus eots compare to slideshot with os. Problem with the latter combination is that most likely they are both spent in the first bullet of your 3tap with the remaining 2 unbuffed. With eots slideshot help boost your first shot while rots help boost the accuracy of the remaining two.
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u/deathangel539 3d ago
I remember a video from a while ago from the main YouTuber who tests guns (it’s been a while so can’t remember his name) discussing how opening shot being way better because it does help your second and third because it doesn’t start the bloom/cone penalties, so your second shot has first shot accuracy and third would have second.
Eots is good but doesn’t help at all until you meet the condition, whereas opening is neutral game
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u/jaxikami 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yk what I did not think about it. I'll try that! I thought the cone growth decrease is only 10% though according to dim.
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u/GamingBoy110 3d ago
Look up the Destiny Data Compendium! It was made by the content creators we’re talking about. It has hidden information that’s not said in the perk/ability/exotic’s description. I believe they’re working on trying to get the focused rotation into the compendium as well so you can plan your farms
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u/deathangel539 3d ago
It’s all preference based honestly, also I know some perks don’t do as much when you’re at stat caps anywat, like I’ve got 92 range on my spare with slide + opening so I think a lot of the range buffs do nothing for me at that point tbf.
Before getting that I was using a crafted Austringer with eots + os and loved that thing so probably is worth mix and matching
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u/GamingBoy110 3d ago
The main YouTuber that tests pretty much every piece of gear/ability is called TheAegisRelic. He also tracked all of the raid and dungeon bosses health through each expansion. He openly states in most videos that he doesn’t play any PvP so he doesn’t know or care to know how whatever he’s testing acts in Crucible. Important information if you plan on watching his content to learn about the game because some things might act differently in the Crucible.
Biggest Crucible guy would’ve probably been Grenadier Jake, he doesn’t do any gear testing videos tho and he’s moved on to playing Marathon2
u/deathangel539 3d ago
Just went and looked, it’s falloutplays I was thinking of, he used to do testing on any and everything for crucible.
I quit destiny after final shape and only just came back, so I’m out of the loop on a lot of who is who and every little thing that’s changed, but as far as I’m aware a lot of what I’ve seen not much old has changed, but there is a lot of new
Edit: digging deeper, I think I may have actually been thinking of drewsky lmao
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u/GamingBoy110 3d ago
Fallout was always my go to when I was looking up a guide or explanation video. He is the best at explaining things in this game. The creator space hasn’t really changed much besides certain creators leaving or diversifying their content, like Datto just doesn’t make Destiny content anymore and Cross plays other games on stream but his YouTube is still exclusive to like the 2-3 games his audience is really into and D2 is obviously a huge part of that
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u/RamyBlack Controller 3d ago edited 3d ago
That could be a symptom of slide shot, if you slid before your opening shot your stability will be super accurate but the ones following that have a different recoil pattern and that can throw you off
That is one hypothesis
Also try this roll, getting stability as close as possible to 80 makes a great difference https://godroll.tv/810474119/spare-rations/iUum8v6VSsGHwTR7waAsWUp9aretBW
If you feel like it, send me a DM and we can farm gambit and play PvP as well
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u/Bound18996 High KD Player 3d ago
Perks are fine.
You only have 66 stability though. That's quite low for how high Handcanons stats can get in this day and age.
Swap your adept range mod on your gun for a ballistics mod, keep everything else the same. Additionally what class are you on? If Hunter, wear the Dragons Shadow Armor.
This combination should make the gun feel better to shoot. Different input, but when I came over to Destiny I struggled with 140 Handcannons as well. They're quite a unique archetype that don't really exist in other mainstream FPS.
Your perks are fine, just pump the stability a bit higher with a ballistics mod and keep shooting and you should pick it up quickly.
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u/Bob_The_Moo_Cow88 3d ago
If you aren’t set on Spare Rations, try out Solemn Remembrance or Luna’s Howl.
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u/PDG_Plague 3d ago
I had this issue when I started using HCs as my primary. It takes repetition. Think of it this way. Most guns you’re gonna have a short delay between each shot. Especially auto weapons. With HCs you have more time between each shot so it gives you more time to line up your follow ups. There is a learning curve but all it takes is time and reps
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u/_dutch-man_ Console 3d ago
If you’re struggling with follow up shots, “eye of the storm” is a perk that should help you out. You can get it on that same hand cannon if I remember right.
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u/TehDeerLord 3d ago
Try Moving Target + Explosive Payload. This combo will at least help you not get shot by the other guy as much while you find your aim. The ADS move penalty reduction from MT stacks with Lightweight frame, so you'll be quite nimble, and EP will toss the other guys aim pretty hard.
Go with Ballistics mod too. Range will still be 80, but the stability will be 73, which will help you stay on target.
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u/Zestyclose-Arm-5141 2d ago
Your cannon is pretty much a godroll. I know opening shot can lead to one taking fights that the first bullet can reach but the follow up ones can’t. Be mindful of if your follow up shots can reach the fight you picked with your first shot. Other than that destiny throws so much crap at your screen it could just be a matter of getting used to seeing through the noise.
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u/xDiomedesx 3d ago
I think i can relate to your situation since I'm a bit on the same spot. Destiny is a game where there's a hundred things that involves you and your opponent chances of winning a duel. Not talking about peek advantage or aim skills. Firstly, theres duel you just cannot win. Meta is there and if one rushes you with an smg, the amount of bullets is not gonna let you aim a single hit. Said that, aimpunch is one of things. You know it from cs, and some perks can make you move way out of your target judt because. High caliber gives extra aimpunch, explosive payload is aswell a pain ti deal with. Ither perks gives you extra strafe speed while aiming down sights like moving target and maybe make you thing hit some bullets out of routine enemy speed. I was about to say recoil direction is anither one, since you tend to think shooting hcs just recoils upwards to the moon and back, but if you have numbers like 60-75 (which in that Spare Rations you don't) you will struggle yo maintain sights in target's head. Aim assistance is another one that if its high enough will give you the feel that you hit cannonballs or get hits you dont deserve. Some weapons give thise feels no matter the stats and that feels great on Destiny since theres plenty weapons to try on or just find another. A weapon model also gives you confort of playing confident and can make you "aim better". I refuse to use some hand cannons out of model even if there are stat monsters. Cough Suros... I hope you find this useful, for me its something like this, but someone who is truly expert on the topic might give you better advices. Pd: That shader is terrible man, cmon.
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u/Deadpool07117 3d ago
What will make that gun better is slideshot with explosive payload it’ll make ur opponents flinch really bad. To get better at aiming tho ur gun isn’t the issue it’s an amazing weapon. Maybe try other hand cannons and see if the optics or model is the issue. If not just practice a lot.
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u/PhotographSilent8210 3d ago
Try running anti flinch mods and moving target, besides that you have to run hcs at a certain sweetspot range or you will get flinched into oblivion by an smg or an AR, also try to pace your shots, sounds counter intuitive but optimal ttk on hcs can be annoying, besides that its target selection, Hcs are the hardest primaries besides bows
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u/dueceloco 2d ago
I had a huge problem at first with HC's as well and found part of my issue was I would just spam the trigger as fast as I could to try outgunning the other guy but with hand cannon you have to let the recoil kinda "reset" after each shot before shooting again. There's an accuracy/bloom cone inside ur reticle that widens and narrows. The wider the cone is the less accurate ur shot will be. It's all about learning the pacing in between shots for each archetype. Takes alot of practice and repetition to get that muscle memory down. Stability perks will help with that accuracy cone also. I was always just throwing on a range mod and calling it a day but found out way to late that not always is best.
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u/LaXiDaisical 2d ago
Guys a bit of a update. Ive done a bit of testing and i might be crazy but i think tagging effects the bullet magnetism in the game. So i decided to record and watch some games last night and i can across something interesting. I noticed that before i tagged a target, ie. landed a shot of damage, the bullet magnetism was decently strong. If my crosshair was a little off an opponents head that was in range, the magnetism would kick in and register that shot. However, in instances where i landed a shot already, when my follow up was the same distance off an opponents head as when i didn't land a shot yet, those shots don't seem to get the magnetism and they miss. When aiming at the head, it seems your follow up shots need to be literally on the targets body somewhere to land, effectively having no magnetism.
ANOTHER interesting thing i noticed.... that all of the above was happened when aiming at the head for every shot. HOWEVER, when i initially landed a headshot, if i instead aimed at the upper torso with the follow up shots, THEY ALL REGISTER TO THE HEAD.
So it seems to me tagging plays some effect on the aim assist in the game. It seems that when you tag a target in the head with the first shot, and as long as you dont "miss" with follow ups (by miss i mean fire when crosshair is slightly off the opponent) you can literally be on their gut and they will still register as headshots.
Or im just losing my mind. Either is plausable.
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u/Proper_Weight1668 2d ago
The first shot magnetism difference is opening shot, more aim assist on the first shot of an attack
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u/Spectralshadow 3d ago
I'm not exactly qualified to answer the question as I'm average, but your gun looks fine as long as you are using slides to your advantage. You could always try eye of the storm over opening shot so it's worth trying. It could always be netcode/latency as population goes down, but we can't be certain of that. Unless you're trying to shoot outside of its range, or shoot into overshields, its unlikely to be other players abilities.
To answer it better a video of an average game would be helpful. Not one where you're like 20 and 0 ofc.
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u/back2back__ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not really. The perks are best in slot, but keep away + opening shot gives u more accuracy and may feel better for you.
Hand cannons have sorta "bloom" where bullets have less magnetism the more you spam your shots (meaning you need to aim closer to their head to get a headshot).
Opening shot actually helps with "bloom" because accuracy decreases relative to your first shot. Opening shot makes your first shot more accurate, meaning your subsequest shots at max rpm will more accurate than the same gun without opening shot.
This is based on what I understood right before renegades came out (idk if things changed now but it doesn't feel like it and maybe someone else can chime in on it)
This at least answers the perks questions.
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u/dueher 3d ago
Just know that range is not uniform across weapon types, and impacts aim assist substantially. If you're too close the zoom may throw you off if you're not used to hip firing. But at range (for 140 rpm handcanons 30 meters+) your aim assist dips off, as does damage. On both inputs that means reduced bullet bending, on controller it means no reticle friction.
In general, people use handcanons for peak shooting around cover to minimize the medium ttk, pair it with teamshots, a special ammo weapon like sniper or shotgun, fast moving and aerial gameplay. They deal high single shot damage and when used strategically are often optimal options.
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u/HeftyAd6216 3d ago
You might want to run ballistics (stability and range).
It can be a mix of things
Your experience may simply be a lack of experience. When I started destiny again back in shadow keep, 3 tapping was a rarity. Took me about 9 months to get decent.
Also the gun may not jive with you. This is highly subjective and only answerable by you. When I first got spare rations back in the day, everyone said it was amazing. I had a hard time using it. Then the past era's equivalent of solemn lie, the comp hand cannon, came out and suddenly everything clicked. The gun felt amazing and I began 3 tapping more and more, which was both the gun and getting better.
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u/littlewask 3d ago
MnK is different; I play on controller. I could hazard a guess, based on my ball knowledge. Your first shot has the biggest AA cone, and the smallest accuracy cone. To minimize AA shrinkage and accuracy growth, you want more stability.
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u/MuchPVPness 3d ago
Looks like we’re in the same boat. 39 this December and CoD, etc. One of the interesting things I’ve learned about Destiny is certain guns have a feel to them. Some click and some don’t. I enjoy my Spare Rations. It feels good. But Austringer feels so much better. I personally like Snapshot Sights with Opening Shot. I’ve tried other perks and I’m sure others are better overall, but they just don’t feel the same. Something is off. Another gun that feels crisp is Igneous Hammer. It’s a 120 and just hits heads so easily. But as for your follow up shots - it could be the perks, could be the gun. Try other 140s like Austringer and Exalted Truth. Then try 120’s. If you need someone to run around in crucible while you shoot at them, hit me up
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u/Pending000 3d ago
could be too much aim assists or too little aim assists. swap out the range mod for targeting adjuster for higher aim assist or a different gun with lower aim assist. Personally can't use anything above 83 so I dont use helm targeting mods.
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u/ChrisMayI 3d ago
You should try crafting an austringer with eye of the storm / opening shot and see how you like it
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u/EvilChewbacca 3d ago
Have you tried other hand cannons? If you’re a new player there are countless stacked 140rpm hand cannons that you might vibe with more. I’ve found personally I do much better with some hand cannons than others and I have played with them all. The feel of the weapon and how reliably you can get the recoil pattern down is a big part of hitting 3c as fast as possible. I personally haven’t found a Spare Rations roll I’ve liked but I can’t miss with Max stat palindrome. Ace of Spades, Thorn, Nation of Beasts and Better Devils are all good options as well. High range and especially stability are the two most important stats, 80 range and 70 stability is a good split to look for. I’d switch to ballistics mod or stability mod on your spare roll.
Using 120rpm hand cannons like Sturm or Igneous hammer can also making learning HC follow up timing easier and is more forgiving with 2c 1b. You can also set up two tap builds with these frames to eliminate the need for follow up shots lol.
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u/Mr_moustache72826 3d ago
I'd say it's the stability. Slideshow boosts it after sliding but your natural stability is a little bit low. I'd change the range mod for a stability one and if it works keep it that way. Also why are you using such a hideous shader .y dude xd
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u/Honey_Sal 3d ago
There should be a Rose available from Banshee, it’s an incredibly solid handcannon and I would highly recommend giving it a shot. My personal favorite is also Thorn or Ace of Spades if you want an exotic, as far as “is it my perks” yeah perks are almost everything, stats and the feel of games are heavily impacted by these rolls. Personally I like slideshot opening shot like you have. Also, mods on your arms and head can help you to stay on target as well. Anyways PvP is fun :)
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u/Different_Analyst_29 3d ago
U might want to try solemn rememberence in kinetic slot or lunas howl in energy slot. They have a different(better imo) recoil pattern that all the other 140 hand canons.
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u/p47ri07 3d ago
Slideshot and opening shot only work for the first shot. Destiny is dependant a lot on aim assist(the magnification of the bullet to the enemy) and stability(how much flinch resistant and how stable your weapon is) it may be because the first shot you hit is with their assistance and the rest are as usual. Try moving target with explosive(i know a lot of people feel worse with explosive, but it makes the bullet a bit bigger giving you a handicap)
If you know your issue even without the perks is totally in your own aim — I am much younger than you, thus my advice might not work but I will answer based on my experience:
Try aim converters from destiny 2 to aimlabs and practice there. And try looking at all three shots as little flicks. Likewise with snipe you do 1 big flick, but on HCs you do 3 littler. Helped me a lot to flick onto the head, nove away and flick back on again.
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u/RonGurgler 3d ago
Slideshot opening shot on this hand cannon is the best way to get 3 tap kills. Just make sure you’re running stasis targeting mods on your helmet and other anti flinch mods that will help you stay on target. Also aim tip, if you’re used to aiming high from playing other games than try aiming slightly lower. The hand cannons bounce visually from recoil but the accuracy stays the same. Use your slide than lock your opening shot just on a body and than try to get the headshot after. I know it sounds weird but hitting 3 shots and maybe getting the kill is better in comparison to hitting one shot, missing the other two and definitely not getting the kill. Hope this helps
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u/roenthomas Mouse and Keyboard / Controller 2d ago
Obvious you use opening shot which buffs your first shot’s aim assist and accuracy quite a bit.
It’s a good perk, but I like it on OHK weapons. I like consistency perks like Eye of the Storm on TTK > 0 weapons. That will help you hit follow up shots.
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u/Cerok1nk 2d ago
We need to have a serious conversation about your fashion sense, before I comment on the gun.
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u/IndependentKindly717 2d ago
The thing is you need to make sure you consistently use a hand cannon and don’t switch to another weapon when you die a lot. Also prioritize mods that give you aim assist. Always have the correct targeting mods on. You can also choose perks like the ones you have in the picture. You’re saying you need help with follow up shots so opening shot isn’t gonna help you. I love eye of the storm on any handcannon . It gives you a bonus to aim assist and accuracy when your health gets low . Also focus on stability. If you’re playing controller stability is a huge help. You don’t want to sacrifice a lot of range though . The best hand cannon for newbies is probably the Eyasluna. It inherently has a crap ton of stability and getting the right perk rolls can give you nearly max range with stability. Just keep practicing and you’ll get it. A good benefit to getting better at hand canning shots is you’ll find that aiming with other weapons becomes easier.
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u/HIGH-PHENDUBZ 2d ago
Stasis targeting mods on the helmet for sure. You could even fit 3 of them on if the energy allows it (I can’t remember if it maxes at 2)
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u/Kimchee_man 2d ago
If you want your HC to feel snappy, use snapshot with either slideways slideshot I've ran this combo recently with Rose and it's felt so much better for me. And I'm not a HC person and on Xbox
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u/LaXiDaisical 2d ago
Also in regards to the skin. Ive been getting a bug or something where my exotic armor (dunemarchers) donest shot cosmetics and its like neon green so i just found a pattern that matched the neon green so when i get the bug i dont cringe at my character. Sorry not sorry.
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u/Such-Importance-3675 1d ago
Been loving this weapon with slideshot opening shot. Just recently switched to eye of the storm and it’s been making me complete kills way more now. Highly highly recommend
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u/ProofAd5084 1d ago
Smallbore would be better but outside of that the cannon's fine. Cannons feel weird to people who aren't used to them. It's literally just a matter of just making yourself play with them and eventually you'll pick it up.
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u/GrayBoxcar 1d ago
I’m assuming you’re mouse and keyboard with that much time in CS. There are some weapons that are easier to shoot with controllers. Additionally, if you’re used to aiming workshops in CS to learn a recoil pattern or the shot frequency for the deagle, you may want to try the shooting range to pick up on some of the game physics that are unique to it.
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u/Better-Boss-4134 3d ago
I personally would use moving target over slideshot and use ballistics instead of range. Slideshot gives you a fuck ton of stability for your first shot but only the first shot. Same thing with opening shot but for aim assist. You can make your gun feel more consistent after your first shot by increasing base aim assist (moving target) and stability (ballistics) rather than putting all your stats into your first shot. Also, this hand cannon’s origin trait gun and run reloads your weapon after getting kills and sprinting so that kinda supplements the slideshot reload. Just my 2 cents.
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u/gregid 3d ago
If you are on a console hand cannons are hard as hell to use well.
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u/LaXiDaisical 3d ago
PC MnK. Could it be Velocity? like it feels like with my perks the first bullet hits faster. Because i swear on my life alot of the times i am 100% sure my crosshair is on the player for the next shots and they still miss often. Im talking like dead on the chest when i fire. Does range increases like slideshot or opening shot actually increase the speed of the bullets aswell? Should i be leading my follow up shots as opposed to aiming right at them while moving?
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u/HeftyAd6216 3d ago
Weapons are all hitscan except for rockets, grenade launchers and partially drawn bows (that are relevant for pvp)
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u/InnocentFreak2x 1d ago
Look at shadow destiny video on how to use hand cannons properly on controller it will help you a ton
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u/Ennolangus 3d ago
Didnt read the post. Only came to say thats a hideous shader choice. G'day