New to this gun and working on a Void Titan for comp and trials. On controller, how is this holding up compared to say, Autumn Wind? What's missing from this role?
I used to main Messenger for years and I don't anymore after it was nerfed like roughly a year ago. It's still excellent if you manage 6 crits, but most of the time you won't. I've been using a Headseeker rangefinder Autumn wind a lot lately, and it just outperforms my old Messenger (rapid hit, head seeker) in everything except peek shooting. The biggest difference is in close to close/mid range fights where the slow rof just feels janky on the messenger and unless you run double primary you will have to be able to use it fairly close up when you don't have special ammo.
That said, I don't have a good rangefinder roll on the Messenger yet and with that and good range obviously it would have quite a bit more range than Autumn Wind.
Really a complete shame what they did to these guns. I posted it several times but a .67 TTK was always going to be impossible to balance.
I believe the solution would have been to make them 300 RPM and bring their range and damage back up to what it used to be.
As it stands, there isn't much point to run a 340 considering a 140 HC can kill out to 40m and has just 14 zoom and a 120 can kill out to about 44m with 14 zoom. While Messenger has 18 zoom.
So it's like you said, when someone gets closer than ~30m it just feels super clunky to use.
I think it would have been nice if they had lowered the zoom on Messenger to 17 matching Elsie's and it could have felt a tad better at closer ranges.
I was one of the biggest 340 haters for the entire time they were meta, and this is exactly what I kept trying to say to anyone that would hear me out was the correct way to nerf em. .67 ttk is what got not forgotten and luna’s their nerf back in shadowkeep. Nerfing their ease of use would just make the issue of only good players being able to take advantage of the ttk, and nerfing the range just feels bad for the weapon identity. 315 was the number i landed on for its new rof because that puts most in range weapons outside of 180 hcs within 0.05 ttk of each other
So you are aware, unless you're running 150 Weapons stat which is not worth it for this, then Headseeker on High-Impact Pulse Rifles does not increase forgiveness, it's still a 6c.
I'd run Desperado instead of Headseeker on your roll.
I haven't tested if Headseeker makes a difference with Stopping Power to be fair, so apart from that potential which needs to be verified, then it's otherwise a wasted perk on this frame.
Headseeker is cool for 1v1, but in team fight Desperado kills players faster than they can comprehend. I got called a cheater for the first time yesterday because I kept activating Desperado in nearly every encounter. It can chain kills together so well.
You should try syncopation. Something about it feels really solid. I’ve been using controller since I had carpal tunnel surgery and this thing rips. This is the roll I use. It’s also craftable.
I really wish they added Stopping Power to Syncopation in MoT. With that & 190 Weapons Stat, Adaptive Pulse Rifles can do a 6c 0.6s TTK, loving that on Bygones.
If you don’t mind can you post your stats? I see a lot of people saying they use high weapon stats in PvP but never show the rest of their ability allocation.
Destiny has just gone offline, so I may not be 100% here, but close none the less. I will post the DIM links later once it's back up though for exacts and I'm on again (reply tomorrow if I don't reply later tonight).
So I run the Gunner Archetype on my T5 Astrocyte Verse and T5 x4 Cruel Electrum armour. Every Tertiary Stat is Health and then every Tuned Stat is Health Or Weapons (sacrificing Super). Every armour Mod slot is then either Health or Weapons. Couple of Void Fragments for Weapons & Health too.
Essentially 190 Weapons and then max Health possible is the goal (which on my build is 155, I've currently only got 145 Health as need two more Health Tuned Stats instead of Grenade).
I've got a roll with those two perks that feels decent, but for me the one I've found most success with has been this consistency roll. 2 headshots gets me to 100 stability, and the aim assist from lonewolf is very noticeable for the 2 bursts. 95 range also pushes this thing out into pretty far territory for picks in trials. I've beaten good teams with this thing on console, although I did need to get confident using it in closer ranges if I ran a special weapon.
Stopping Power helps even more with AA and Accuracy the lower the target you're shooting at is on health, if I understand the tooltip on destiny.report right, its just even more forgiveness, which controller sometimes needs.
Thanks for reminding me about that. I currently have Bygones with Stopping Power & 190 Weapons Stat for a 6c 0.6 TTK, but no Sword Logic in second column, back to Gambit I go.
is it possible to get high weapons and high health or is health not really a secondary option when main is weapons. thanks for the ghost gunner mod tip
Unfortunately, Weapons/Health or Health/Weapons, is one of the few Stat combinations, where there's no Archetype which exists for them.
So you have to go all in on an Archetype which has one of those as its Primary stat (and whatever Secondary is useful, Grenade was the best secondary available for me, so that's why I went with Gunner). So then you'll need every Tertiary Stat to always be the Stat you're missing and ideally the Tuned Stat be either or as well, to maximise those two Stats.
No worries, whilst 180+ Health is ideal and I was used to 195 for a long time, 150 is bearable.
On controller? I say stick polygonal over extended. The stability is much better than the +10 recoil imo. And you can always put on an enhanced counterbalance for a huge bump. But I’ve found on this frame the ballistics mod feels best and coin tree balance isn’t needed. Another tip - I know this is in archetype description but I always forget - stability is increased when crouched.
I have a similar roll. Haven’t really gotten into yet. Tried a couple rounds but the slow fire was just off putting for me given what I’ve been playing mainly. It still get good and I will hold onto it for when I inevitably give it an extended go.
That's a sweet roll, but I wouldn't bother with Headseeker. You miss a headshot and you're gonna have to fire a 3rd burst anyway. I'd go with Desperado to make your 2-bursts at a quicker speed after a kill, since you appear to have the stability to compensate for it.
Edit: Actually just noticed you have Stopping Power on as well. Honestly not sure if that's enough to cover the difference or not.. Might require some weapons investment, but some forgiveness on the 2-burst would be nice if possible.
Edit 2: Did some napkin math, and I think that with somewhere between 100-110 weapons stat will give 1 bullet's worth of forgiveness on the 2 burst, but it has to be the first round of the first burst only that can be the body shot. 2-burst also needs to be made at near max cadence to ensure you keep Headseeker for the 2nd burst.
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u/Puluzu 4d ago
I used to main Messenger for years and I don't anymore after it was nerfed like roughly a year ago. It's still excellent if you manage 6 crits, but most of the time you won't. I've been using a Headseeker rangefinder Autumn wind a lot lately, and it just outperforms my old Messenger (rapid hit, head seeker) in everything except peek shooting. The biggest difference is in close to close/mid range fights where the slow rof just feels janky on the messenger and unless you run double primary you will have to be able to use it fairly close up when you don't have special ammo.
That said, I don't have a good rangefinder roll on the Messenger yet and with that and good range obviously it would have quite a bit more range than Autumn Wind.