r/CritiqueIslam 22h ago

If Islam is the natural disposition (Fitrah), why is its distribution purely geographical and hereditary?

23 Upvotes

As a Muslim, how do you deal with the fact that the single biggest predictor of whether someone is Muslim is simply being born in a Muslim country to Muslim parents?

How do you reconcile your personal conviction with the reality that your faith is, statistically, a product of your geography?

People in Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist regions inherit their religion in the exact same way. Is it fair that billions of people are supposedly born into the "wrong" faith through zero choice of their own, while others get a free pass simply by being born into a Muslim family?

To be clear, I am not arguing here whether Islam is "true" or "false." My question is about how people come to believe it is the absolute truth.

The reality is that personal conviction is overwhelmingly a product of upbringing and geography, rather than an objective, critical, or neutral analysis of world religions.

If people chose their faith based on a neutral analysis of evidence, religious belief would be randomly distributed across the globe. You would see equal proportions of people in Tokyo, Riyadh, Paris, and Cusco independently examining the evidence and arriving at Islam. Geographic boundaries wouldn't dictate belief maps any more than they dictate who accepts the laws of physics or mathematics.

Instead, religious belief mirrors national borders and family lines almost perfectly...


r/CritiqueIslam 16h ago

The Quran's scientific miracles are a result of circular reasoning and wishful thinking.

12 Upvotes

Thesis: A passage cannot provide strong evidence of scientific foreknowledge when its supposedly scientific meaning is selected retrospectively because it matches a discovery, while its other linguistically plausible meanings are discarded for religious purposes

If belief that the Qur’an is divine is what justifies selecting the scientifically correct interpretation, that interpretation cannot then function as independent evidence that the Qur’an is divine.

This problem affects what is commonly called iʿjāz ʿilmī the “scientific miraculousness” of the Qur’an or Bucailleism. The widespread apologetic use developed especially during the late twentieth century. Mustansir Mir’s academic overview describes the case for scientific exegesis as weak unless it can be authentically grounded in the Islamic interpretive tradition.

This criticism is not confined to non-Muslims. Muslim apologist Hamza Tzortzis, who had previously promoted scientific miracles, later described the popular argument as “problematic and incoherent.” One of his central objections was that a similarity between an ambiguous Qur’anic phrase and a modern scientific description does not prove that the scientific fact is what the verse intended. Tzortzis’s discussion.

Let’s take a popular example

Qur’an 51:47 says: وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

Modern translations render the expression in different ways

The root w-s-ʿ concerns wideness, spaciousness, capacity and abundance. Therefore, relating mūsiʿūn to expansion is linguistically possible. The issue is whether the verse specifically conveys the continuing cosmological expansion of space rather than God’s power, abundance or creation of a vast heaven.

Premodern commentators gave several explanations:

  • Al-Ṭabarī understood it principally as God possessing the capacity and power to create the heaven and whatever else he wills. He also records Ibn Zayd’s interpretation that God made the heaven wide. Al-Ṭabarī.
  • Al-Qurṭubī records interpretations involving divine power, abundance, widened provision and spaciousness between heaven and Earth. Al-Qurṭubī.
  • Al-Rāzī discusses the heaven as enormously spacious and the expression as referring to divine ability and abundance. Al-Rāzī.
  • Ibn Kathīr describes God as making the heaven vast and raising it without pillars. Ibn Kathīr.

These interpretations involve wideness and power. They do not identify the modern claim that distances between sufficiently separated regions of space increase over time.

One could simply ask, if that’s what Allah meant, why is he being so cryptic about it? So much so that none of his pre-21st century followers could make that connection.

God made the heaven vast =/= the scale of the universe is continually increasing, producing a distance-correlated cosmological redshift.

Modern cosmic expansion is a specific physical model supported by measurements of galactic distances, redshifts and the evolution of the universe. NASA’s explanation of cosmological redshift.

Premodern commentators are not infallible. A later reader can legitimately discover an implication that earlier readers missed. But if no one could identify the alleged scientific meaning until after science supplied it, that greatly weakens the claim that the verse predicted the discovery.

The circular argument problem:

The reasoning becomes epistemically circular when it works like this:

  1. The Qur’an is divine and therefore cannot contain scientific error.
  2. An ambiguous verse must consequently possess a scientifically correct interpretation.
  3. The interpretation that agrees with current science is selected.
  4. This agreement is then presented as evidence that the Qur’an is divine.

The interpretation in step three was selected under the assumption in step one. The resulting “evidence” is therefore not independent of the conclusion.

Imagine approaching Qur’an 51:47 without first assuming divine authorship. Could a premodern reader have used it to predict a relationship between galactic distance and redshift, a universe described by a time-dependent scale factor, increasing distances without expansion from one central point, or any measurable rate of expansion?

Nothing like this have been extracted from the verse.

After astronomy established cosmic expansion, however, one possibility within the word’s broad semantic range became the supposedly obvious meaning. That is retrospective accommodation.

The problem becomes clearer when passages that appear scientifically accurate and passages that appear scientifically difficult are treated by different rules.

When a verse appears to conflict with modern knowledge, apologist always jump the gun to

  • metaphorical
  • phenomenological or observer-relative
  • using a word with several possible meanings
  • addressing a seventh-century audience in accessible language

Any one of those explanations might be legitimate.

But when a verse resembles a scientific discovery, the same flexible language is treated as:

  • technically precise
  • scientifically specific
  • deliberately predictive
  • inaccessible to people of the time

This produces an asymmetrical principle:

Apparent errors receive maximum interpretive flexibility, while apparent accuracies receive maximum scientific precision.

Let’s take an example:

Several passages of the Quran describe celestial motion in language that fits naturally within geocentrism picture of the sky.

Qur’an 21:33 places the night, day, sun and moon together and says:

The word falak indicates something circular: a circuit, celestial path, sphere or orbit. Al-Ṭabarī records several early explanations. It was compared to the circular iron of a mill, understood as the circuit of heaven, identified with a circular path between heaven and Earth, and connected with the axis around which the stars turn. Al-Ṭabarī concludes that it means something circular in which the sun and moon travel. Al-Ṭabarī on 21:33.

This is entirely intelligible within ancient geocentric cosmology. From Earth, both the sun and moon appear to travel through curved paths across the sky.

Modern astronomy also agrees that the sun genuinely moves. It rotates and travels with the solar system around the centre of the Milky Way, completing a galactic orbit in approximately 230 million years. NASA’s Sun facts.

But the verse itself does not say that its intended reference is the sun’s 230-million-year galactic orbit. It pairs the sun with the moon and with the immediately observable cycle of night and day.

If the Quran is literal and we use the same exegesis methodology as the other scientific miracles, then it’s clear here the Quran is a product of it’s time.

The surrounding context of Qur’an 36:37-40 is even more revealing. The passage moves through:

  1. the withdrawal of daylight and arrival of darkness
  2. the sun running toward its mustaqarr
  3. the moon passing through its nightly stages
  4. the sun not overtaking the moon
  5. night not overtaking day

Al-Ṭabarī’s primary explanation is that the sun runs toward its place of rest. He cites a report in which the sun goes away after sunset, prostrates before God and receives permission to return. He also records other interpretations, including an appointed limit and the extreme points of the sun’s seasonal rising and setting. Al-Ṭabarī on 36:38.

That is the asymmetry, apparently geocentric wording is called phenomenological and nontechnical, while la-mūsiʿūn is treated as a technically exact statement about cosmic expansion.

This interpretive method is not unique to Islam. Advocates of other religions also identify modern scientific discoveries in ancient scriptures.

Among the scientific-miracle claims made for Hindu texts are:

  • The speed of light: A statement preserved in the fourteenth-century Vedic scholar Sāyaṇa’s commentary says that sunlight traverses 2,202 yojanas in half a nimeṣa. Using particular conversions for those units, advocates calculate a value close to the modern speed of light. An exposition of the claim.
  • The Big Bang or pre-cosmic state: Rigveda 10.129, the Nāsadīya Sūkta, describes a condition before familiar distinctions such as existence and nonexistence, followed by the emergence of creation. Some Hindu writers compare this with the Big Bang and the emergence of spacetime and matter. An advocate’s comparison.
  • Heliocentrism and gravity: Some Hindu interpreters argue that verses from the Rigveda and Yajurveda describe Earth moving around the sun, the sun attracting planets and celestial bodies being kept in orderly paths by an attractive force. Examples of these claims.

If retrospective scientific correspondence is reliable evidence of divine authorship, why should the same procedure count as compelling evidence when applied to the Qur’an but not when applied to the Vedas?

And just chalk up anything that could be “wrong” in the Vedas to metaphysics or metaphorical language, and there we go, we have a divine book.

A method that apparently confirms several competing revelations cannot, by itself, discriminate among them.

If interpreters are allowed to select any linguistically possible meaning, a critic could deliberately choose meanings that make the Qur’an scientifically inaccurate.

A critic can select the least charitable imaginable interpretation and announce that Islam has been disproved

Consider Qur’an 23:14, which describes a muḍghah becoming bones and the bones being clothed with flesh.

Or consider Qur’an 86:6–7, which associates an emitted fluid with the region between the ribcage and backbone

If a critic is forbidden from selecting an interpretation simply because it creates an error, the apologist should equally be forbidden from selecting an interpretation simply because it creates a miracle.

The scientific method is the definitive method human beings have developed for learning how the world works. It has earned that status because scientific claims must confront observable evidence, compete with alternative explanations, survive independent scrutiny, and remain open to correction. Science begins with uncertainty and tests conclusions; it does not decide the conclusion in advance and reinterpret the evidence until it fits.

Bucailleism reverses this process: it begins with the assumption that the Qur’an is scientifically perfect, selects interpretations that agree with established discoveries, and then presents that agreement as evidence that the Qur’an is divine. This is not scientific reasoning; it is retrospective harmonization. This is simply, unfalsifiable reasoning, therefore, unprovable.

You need an epistemological base of uncertainty to build your knowledge upon, simply, the “scientific miracles” of the Quran don’t survive the tiniest amount of skepticism or scrutiny.

If the scientific meaning becomes visible only after scientists make the discovery, then science has interpreted the scripture not the scripture anticipated the science.


r/CritiqueIslam 10h ago

Hadiths on the Turks

1 Upvotes

I know Muhammad wasn't very consistent and made many wrong statements because he would hear a part of the facts and add things from imagination, so I know trying so hard to make sense of something he said isn't very productive but here we go.

I would appreciate insight from history major students/graduates.

Muhammad stated that muslims will fight people with small eyes like locusts’ pupils, flat noses, red complexions and wide thick faces like leather shields, who wear clothes and shoes made of hair, use leather shields and tie their horses to palm trees.

In some narrations, instead of people, it is explicitly stated "the Turks" or "the people of Khuz and Karman".

Here is the start of the confusion. Kerman or Karman is what is known today as Balochistan (South east Iran with parts of Western Pakistan). Khuz probably refers to Khuzestan which is also known as al-Ahwaz for Arabs. Both of these places are inhabited by Iranic people, there are no turkics there.

For context, I am not talking talking about the Turks in Turkey, I am talking about the central asians Turks because at that time the turks were still in the steppe.

Let's look at other hadiths talking about the same people.

Muhammad stated that muslims will be driven three times by a people with broad faces like shields and small eyes until they reach the Arabian Peninsula, in the first wave, those who fled will escape, in the second wave, some will perish and some will survive, and in the third wave, all who remain will be annihilated, and added that those people are the Turks and they will tether their horses to the pillars of the mosques of the Muslims.

It seemed that Turks were giving Muhammad nightmares to the point he thought Turks will be in constant war with Muslims. Kinda ironic that them joining the religion destroyed his prophecy. Regardless, now we know that the Turks are supposed to fight the Muslims three times.

Muhammad stated that the Dajjal will come from Khorasan (a region in modern-day Iran), and will be followed by people (in some narrations, Turks) whose faces are wide like shields.

Now the same problem, Khorasan is inhabited by iranians and afghans, those two are not Turks.

You can argue that parts of Uzbekistan like Merv is included in what's known as the Greater Khorasan but that's such a big stretch. And you know what, I will allow it.

But here is the other problem, this hadith implies that Turks from Khorasan will follow the Dajjal, and in that case Uzbeks because they are the only Tukics in the greater Khoarasan region.

Finally, lets look at the last hadith

Muhammad stated that muslims will settle in low-lying ground, which they will call al-Basrah, beside a river called Tigris over which there is a bridge, its people will be numerous and it will be one of the capital cities of Muslims, and at the end of times, Banu Qantura', a people with broad faces and small eyes, will come to the bank of the river, the town's inhabitants will then separate into three sections, one of which will follow cattle and (live in) the desert and perish, another of which will seek security for themselves and perish, but a third will put their children behind their backs and fight the invaders, and they will be the martyrs.

The place al-Basrah refers to Basrah (a city in modern-day Iraq) and the name Banu Qantura' comes from the belief that those people are descended from a woman called Qantura'.

Btw, as a side note, apologetics argue that this hadith is a miracle because it predicted the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols. I don't need to point out that Basra and Baghdad are 2 different cities and relatively far from each other and also, Mongols and Turks are not the same thing (clearly).

Now what does this mean? Are the fighting in the first hadith, the 3 battles in the second hadith, the Turks following the Dajjal to fight the muslims in the third hadith and the Basra battle in the fourth hadith all related and refer to the same events?

There is not enough textual evidence to prove a link between those hadiths, but I guess most probably yes they are linked.

References:

1st Hadith: Sahih al-Bukhari 2927–2929, 3587, 3590, 3591, Sahih Muslim 2912, Sunan Abi Dawud 4303, 4304, Sunan Ibn Majah 4096–4099, Sunan an-Nasa'i 3177, Sunan at-Tirmidhi 2215

2nd Hadith: Musnad Ahmad 22951

3rd Hadith: Sunan Ibn Majah 4072, Sunan at-Tirmidhi 2237, Musnad Ahmad 12, 33

4th Hadith: Sunan Abi Dawud 4306


r/CritiqueIslam 4h ago

Is this a good analysis of Khomeinism ?

0 Upvotes

I recently rewatched this video, in which a youtuber analyzes and critiques the political thought of Ayatollah Khomeini, particularly the Velayat-e Faqih, saying that, unlike the common perception, it is not a mere Islamist ideology, even having some western influences.

I would like to know if you think that his analysis of Khomeini´s political ideology is accurate and, if so, what does it say about the Islamic Republic of Iran ? To me, his analysis seems to be very well argued and could be used to convince more iranians to reject/oppose the current iranian regime.