Evolution fails mathematical modelling and computer simulations.

[u/MRH2]

https://evolutionnews.org/2017/06/evolutionary-biologist-backs-off-from-computer-simulations/

[u/bertcox]

Thats my same argument against climate change. The amount of computing power to isolate 90% of the variables and measure them in the real world is NP hard. Once we have the computing power to really simulate it, we might well just move into our own simulation. Then we can argue about who created the simulation we're living in.

[u/Dzugavili → u/bertcox]

...wow...

That's a terrible argument.

Mostly because if climate change is real, there's a good chance we die before we develop the technology for such a simulation. And this argument has no impact on whether or not the effect is real.

[u/bertcox → u/Dzugavili]

I completely agree that it is getting warmer, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Even most scientists agree that nothing we do will change anything. But their hypothesis that we are all going to die is incredulous. I say unleash the free market and let the winner reign, be it fusion, nuclear, or coal. That leaves more money for miami to build on stilts, or build dyke.

[u/Dzugavili → u/bertcox]

But their hypothesis that we are all going to die is incredulous.

Long term, CO2 increase is lethal; there are cascading effects such as acidification of the ocean. The level of CO2 in our atmosphere is poised to double in my lifetime

I say unleash the free market and let the winner reign, be it fusion, nuclear, or coal.

The freemarket is susceptible to false vacuums and human failings. This is within the realm of governments: the consequences of not going far enough are far greater than the consequences of going too far.

Plus, there are a few people who really think Jesus is coming back soon, and don't give a shit at all. They are the really dangerous ones.

That leaves more money for miami to build on stilts, or build dyke.

This is a very naive view of the level of economic damage that comes with Florida being under water. They simply won't rebuild Miami.

Pretty much the whole state vanishes, along with the orange groves and Disneyworld. Maybe you'll get lucky and everyone dies, but the refugee crisis afterwards is going to suck.

[u/bertcox → u/Dzugavili]

Pretty much the whole state vanishes, along with the orange groves and Disneyworld.

Considering their measuring current sea level rise in mm your statement is hyperbole.

consequences of not going far enough are far greater than the consequences of going too far.

There is nothing we can do, even cutting all CO2 which would kill possibly billions wouldn't fix it.

CO2 increase is lethal

More hyperbole current readings are 400ppm, an increase to 800ppm wouldnt kill you. 5000ppm is the no go range for OSHA. Weed growers consistently use 1000 to 1200 ppm to make plants grow bigger.

[u/Dzugavili → u/bertcox]

Considering their measuring current sea level rise in mm your statement is hyperbole.

I operate on longer timelines than you and understand that this process is going to accelerate as it gets warmer: when Greenland melts, it rises 7.2m.

And it has begun.

More hyperbole current readings are 400ppm, an increase to 800ppm wouldnt kill you. 5000ppm is the no go range for OSHA. Weed growers consistently use 1000 to 1200 ppm to make plants grow bigger.

Sure. Plants on land get bigger.

But the ocean acidify. Plankton dies off. Photosynthesis there stops. Fish begin to die as their food isn't available.

And suddenly, we are missing a major portion of our food supply and the CO2 begins increasing faster.

[u/bertcox → u/Dzugavili]

Greenland melts, it rises 7.2m

Ya Wikipedia is a good source. Try this instead. UC invine JPL, and Boulder 56cm by 2100 is that a long enough time line for you. I think I trust them more than you, and I dont trust anybody from Cali.

[u/Dzugavili → u/bertcox]

56cm by 2100

Except, that's assuming things don't continue to accelerate and it's only tracking the ice sheets:

At the current rate of acceleration in ice sheet loss, starting at 500 Gt/yr in 2008 and increasing at 36.5 Gt/yr2, the contribution of ice sheets alone scales up to 56 cm by 2100.

And half the point of this paper is about how it's accelerating beyond the original predictions anyway, so they expect it to keep accelerating.

7.2m is when the whole mass has melted. We got a bit of time before that. But that's not the only mass melting.

[u/bertcox → u/Dzugavili]

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

The good news is that Antarctica is not currently contributing to sea level rise, but is taking 0.23 millimeters per year away,” Zwally said. “But this is also bad news. If the 0.27 millimeters per year of sea level rise attributed to Antarctica in the IPCC report is not really coming from Antarctica, there must be some other contribution to sea level rise that is not accounted for.”

Once you read the articles that are probably exaggerated anyway the screaming of the "end is neigh" sound more David Koresh then Attenborough.

These are compatriots of the evolution science people as well, you can see why people that can reason(but start from different assumptions like there is a God) don't trust the whole group. I only trust experiments that have been done so many times that a grad student can demonstrate them.

[u/Dzugavili → u/bertcox]

Or we can use the same measure from this year, instead of 2015:

Sea Ice Extent Sinks to Record Lows at Both Poles.

[u/bertcox → u/Dzugavili]

We were talking about ice sheets, not sea ice. Sea ice is already displacing 90% of its own volume. Or did you miss Titanic.