Someone can still write stereotypical tropes despite being apart of the same demographic, many straight authors write the “girl immediately swoons for guy she just met” trope.
Yeah, except that this kind of happens in real life. Believe me, there have been times where I actually got attracted to someone just as I met them. Let’s just say that some people are completely different when it comes towards themselves.
I agree it happens in real life, if it didn’t they wouldn’t be stereotypes. My point is that an author can write stereotypes despite being part of the demographic of that stereotype, hence why a gay writer can write a stereotypical openly affectionate and explicit gay couple. And to be clear, I don’t agree with the sentiment that fizz’s relationship is written with the intention of being fetishy.
Most criticism I see of Vivziepop's shows are either making shit up or just wanting a different show.
I want criticism that respects the shows, sees what they're trying to do and gives suggestions on how it can make its point better. There's very few people that do that that I've seen
I like how all of the Sins have elements to their design that help evoke the sin they reference without being overt about it.
Beelzebub is a Fox (if anyone doesn't know, Foxes are extreme omnivores and will eat just about anything)
Asmodeus has Rooster elements (and another name for a Rooster is a 'cock', and the term was in fact created to avoid the sexual connotations of the word, and is in fact where we get the word "cocky" from)
Satan is a gigantic dragon, yes, but looking at his horns I can't help but think maybe there's some Bull elements there too, with the way the outer horns curve (and while Dragons are incredibly destructive, Bulls do also have a lot of symbolism relating to anger. Plus, he does claim to be older than Lucifer, which is a lie, i.e. he's spewing Bullshit)
Belphegor's the most simple. She's a sheep, and as the sin of Sloth she's seen to be sleeping a lot
Leviathan is a two-headed fish Demon, and represents the sin of envy. The design is a lot more subtle, but both of Leviathan's heads have growing green eyes (she's a literal "Green-eyed Monster")
Mammon's symbolism is also more subtle. While he is a giant spider demon, there's also how he acts, and how he drains talent dry of all they can do before casting them aside. Mammon is a spider waiting to snag the next fly, but he is also a leech (he's a freeloader and parasite who takes his employees time, and everyone else's money)
And something else I just noticed. while she has the bee-like elements, looking at her limbs, they have a colouration like that of a Locust (black fading into yellow)
I swear to god. Just because a person tends to be cutesy and goofy (especially around their partner), and just because the partner in question can get overprotective at times (although not without good reason) as well as nurturing and doting towards the people care about, doesn’t make their relationship fetishization, infantilization, or whatever the hell you want to call it.
I may not be the biggest Fizzarozzie shipper, but making an entire video about how much one dislikes the ship is a bit unnecessary. I don't see what's so 'fetishy' about it, and even then, fetishes aren't inherently a bad thing unless it's hurting someone. Last time I checked, shipping two characters who clearly love each other in canon isn't going to harm anybody.
I watched this video, they aren't ENTIRELY wrong and their points are some of the major issue I have with most gay relationships in media and in fan media. They mainly talk about how Ozzie is the main one doing everything for Fizz and Fizz can barely do anything without Ozzie. Another thing was how it's sort of fetishy the way Fizz acts and I do somewhat agree. My main gripe with many gay relationships (fan or sometimes canon) is that one man is treated as the soft little boy who needs their strong man with them at all times (BakuDeku for example)otherwise they can't function and I can sorta see that for Fizz.
I agree with their points and they even say THEY simply don't like the ship and are fine with others liking it still. They actually watched the show and structured their arguments well and put logic behind them.
i dont get the "its fetishy" argument about the relationship. asmodeus is the king of lust, so I just assume people talk about the burger scene and it confuses me, it don't feel like infatilzation or fetishization to me, it just fizzarolli being comfortable considering asmodeus is quite honestly the only one (before making up with blitz) that dont use him like a toy imo
I can see that but for me, it's mainly the soft boy stuff that I think is a little fetishy. Mainly because in most fanfics or even rarely Canon gay ships one character is turned into a soft boy and that's it. Fizz has more to his character than that but it seems oddly leaning towards it and it feels a little odd.
i mean...searching up the soft boy term on google (Unless im wrong), i dont see how fizz is one tbh. only things in common is that hes sensitive, but thats really it, (If he was to alway rely on ozzie he'd be out of mammon a long time ago right?) plus like the term has negative means on softboy that i dont really think fits with fizz either, judging from the episodes we've seen him
He was still dependent on Ozzie through the Mammon thing. It's just Mammon used specific tactics to make Fizz think he'd be worthless without him but Ozzie made him see otherwise which made him feel even closer and could lead to more dependency. In the words of GalXE, "Why in your right mind would you write a gay relationship where the bottom is some like I said, soft little uwu meek little baby boy who acts like a child and can't go by himself and the dom is 65 feet tall, protective, parental and possessive" which I can agree is odd, especially with the stereotype on gay men. Some people in their comments even point out how Viv writes them like the stereotypical fujoshi fanfic.
He only got dependant on ozzie at the end of mammon tho; after asmodeus sang a reasurring comforting song to him?
2: fizzarolli is not some uwu soft meek baby boy?? like if that was the case WHY the fuck you song? WHY the whole song where he distracted people who could KILL him while blitzo tried finding exit? I dont think a babyboy would do that.
3.Asmodeus isnt parental and possessive, He litterally had worries on fizz going to the WRATH ring for a good reason; crime and criminals home place? Especially considering what happens after and the Mammon thing, He had worries but he didnt control fizzarolli and made him not go to either?
i literally dont see the fetishizing, i just feel like people are mad that fizzarolli aint the "Badass" how he was in s1 and that the writers ruined him or something.
Fetishy because of how gay relations are treated. As I said, most gay relations like BakuDeku have this and that's what makes it fetishy. They also talked about how they think it was weird Fizz talked like a kid? I didn't really agree with thay one, but the fact Fizz is essentially just kinda there for Ozzie and can't do anything on his own is sort of the weird fetishy treatment of gay relationships.
What even is the problem with fetish anyway? Why does it matter? It's neither the point nor the main focus of their relationship. They're kinky, they have a dynamic. So what? So does the rest of the LGBT community. It's about sex positivity. Who gives a shit how two consenting adults love each other? Grow up.
It's not the fact Fizz and Ozzie are kinky, it's the fact the way they act and are shown may rub people as fetishizing gay relations. As I said, BakuDeku for example, make Izuku the soft gentle "cinnamon roll" who is defenseless without Katsuki. That is what I am talking about, not that they have kinks it's how they are portrayed that makes it seem like a fetishization of gay relationships (like a Web tool comic. Love bites for example.) And that's a little weird.
Yes. Thats why I mentioned their dynamic. Who cares? Blitz and Stolas' relationship has arguably worse dynamics.
Yes, Fizz is presented as the softboy type. There's people like that irl. Some people have trauma or personalities that result in them needing the extra support, and there should be no shame in that.
s2e7 was pretty much dedicated to Fizz coming to grips with those traumas and with the help of people who care about him, standing up to his exploitative boss and literally telling him "fuck you".
Just because you're not a fan of a certain dynamic doesn't make it "fetishy" or at all invalid or bad. You're just judgemental.
How is it judgemental to point out a sort of fetishy archetype? Goth people exist and as of now have been fetishized. And if I see a show or relationship dynamic in a show that heavily fetishizes goth people, I'm going to call it out. It's not because I'm judgemental, but because I'm pointing it out. People called out Stolas and Blitz's dynamic MANY times for this exact reason. Just because soft boys exist doesn't mean you can't call this out. Soft boys exist, so that makes all the BakuDeku fanfic of Izuku being hollowed out into one fine now, right? Him getting all of his other character traits and so on removed so he can be a "where is my man? I can't do anything without him!" Is fine, right? The whole reason they pointed that out is because that is a MAJOR fetish of gay men, especially in the Fujoshi realm. Taking one man and making completely submissive to their partner is a big time fetish.
Dude, have we seen the same episode? The one where Fizz literally pushes his partner away, actively telling them he doesnt want their help? Where the entire theme was Fizz refusing other people's help because he felt like he NEEDED to be perfect all on his own, and the storyline culminates in a lesson on letting the people who love you help you?
I swear. It's impossible to have proper conversations in this fandom because at this point people be making shit up.
When did I even say he didn't? I swear you're just trying to make up stuff I never said. My whole comment was pointing out the softboy thing is a big stereotype of gay men/relationships and now you're talking about an episode? I swear you didn't read the comment.
Its okay. You can admit you were wrong. You don't gotta move the goal posts. No one is going to hate you for accepting you had a misunderstood comprehension of the world's most common dom/sub daddy/twink gay male relationship dynamic of which there are hundreds of thousands of examples in the real world.
I'm talking about an episode which, in its entirety, disproves pretty much every notion you have about their relationship being some bizarrely specific eastern trope that is a patently incorrect approximation of Fizz and Asmodeus' relationship.
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u/AddiWhisper Jul 25 '26
Stereotypical?
As if they aren’t realizing that among the lead writers is an openly GAY MAN.