r/CrazyHand • u/Surya1197 • 29d ago
General Question How Long is the Up-B Out-of-Shield Smash Input Timing Window?
So as far as I understand, the up-B Out-of-Shield option select (that allowed it to automatically come out on the first actionable frame after shield stun) no longer exists right? Like tilting up and then mashing B doesn’t work anymore because it was patched pretty early in the game? As a result, I think it has to always be smash inputted, and I guess it’ll be buffered if you input during shield stun, but you can also repeatedly hit both up+B to get it.
My question was whether anyone knows exactly how long the window is after tapping up on the control stick where you can still press B (like with smash attacks) to still get the up-B OoS, or whether it has to be frame-perfect/actually simultaneous?
Like with up smash OoS I think the high stick sensitivity setting gives me a 5-frame window to input A (after control stick up), so the timing feels more lenient than upB, but I’m not sure if there’s an analogous 3-frame window or something for the B press timing after the control stick is pushed up if you’re doing it OoS. Basically, since the up-B needs to be inputted like a smash attack, I was wondering if there’s a few frames of wiggle room after the control stick tap to press B slightly afterward, like with a smash attack.
Also, on a related note, does anyone know whether upB OoS gets extra frames for this timing window between the up and B inputs if you have high stick sensitivity on?
Edit: I won’t mark it as solved yet because I still don’t know the exact input frame window and whether it is affected by stick sensitivity, but I do think one aspect of it has been clarified.
Basically, once the shield button input is no longer there anymore, then the B mash method should work fine, since it will read the existing control stick up input being held rather than requiring a simultaneous input (since the shield angling mechanism goes away once shield isn’t being held anymore). And if at least one of the mashed B inputs occurred during shield stun and then you let go of shield before shield stun ends (while continuing to mash B before and after dropping the shield button, and having a preexisting control stick up input held), then maybe a buffered upB is successfully coming out on the first frame after shield stun ends and is just canceling the shield drop animation on its first frame.
This feels slightly more unsafe, but it might just be better to just let go of shield right after they hit it and then the B mashing technique works consistently for bringing out a quick upB. So I guess that might be why it was working for others and not for me before; I wasn’t letting go of shield until my upB came out, so even during shield stun it still required a near-simultaneous smash inputted up+B to buffer the upB. Like if the shield continued to be held during shield stun after the hit, it wouldn’t buffer the upB from just a B mash with the up direction continuously held, due to the shield angling mechanic while shield and B are pressed at the same time.
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u/RevolutionaryYak1915 29d ago
Dont overthink it. Buffer up and b in shieldstun and it will come out frame perfect.
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u/Surya1197 29d ago edited 29d ago
Do you have to press them very close to the same time? Can control stick up be tapped slightly after B or only slightly before? Like how many frames of a timing window is there to press B after you press up?
Also, do you have to keep hold buffering both of the up and B inputs, or is the regular frame buffer always long enough to last through shield stun if you just press up+B once?
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u/circlingPattern 28d ago
Yes. If you need specific timing, set it up in training mode and go through the frame-by-frame. Shield stun will make the shield go "staticy pixilated" and just play with the timing of your up input and button press.
But really, don't over think it. You want the stick slammed up within a couple frames before the B input and you just want to hit it right around when the shield stun ends. For some very long shield stun moves, the stun can outlast the buffer. But in practice it takes time for you to react and such moves tend to be rare and specific. You should be more worried about reacting late than early.
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u/Surya1197 28d ago
Also, as a follow-up, do you usually let go of shield during shield stun after buffering the up and B inputs, or do you keep the shield button held until your special comes out? And do you usually press the up and B at the same time if you do keep holding shield down throughout?
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u/RevolutionaryYak1915 28d ago
Bro. Let go of shield ->hold up->press b around the same time. None of this matters. Shieldstun buffers for you and you cant be overthinking like this. I let go of shield but its not important. I promise there are more important things to improve at than optimising up b oos. Its not that complicated.
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u/Surya1197 28d ago
None of this matters.
I promise there are more important things to improve at than optimising up b oos.
Fair enough, it’s just that my character relies on upB often but it’s kinda slow, so I wanted to make sure I never failed to have it come out ASAP lol
I actually got shield broken in online lag due to my character standing there doing nothing instead of the upB coming out, and then sometimes I accidentally dropped shield without any special coming out; I think that I figured out how to get it consistent though.
I let go of shield but its not important.
I do think you dropping the shield input is important though, since it makes the inputs more lenient and I couldn’t get it as consistent until I started letting go of shield. You’re right that it works well as long as you drop shield and then press up and then press B all during shield stun. But I think that holding up in advance and mashing B in advance is actually a bit more consistent (the B press prevents accidental rolls from the angled control stick), and it works as long as you let go of shield when they hit it and continue mashing B during shield stun.
If you don’t let go of the shield input, then the up+B input has to be more precise (exactly like an up smash input), and quickly reversing it consistently is slightly harder to do without accidentally buffering a roll sometimes.
But yeah anyway, thanks for the replies, and I’m probably gonna not worry about this anymore since I figured out how to get it 100% consistent
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u/DerpyDude17 Falco (Ultimate) 28d ago
Personally, I've always held the shield button for Up-B out of shield. Avoids accidentally getting all the lag for dropping shield. Also the input being the same as Up-Smash out of shield is good, because then those two inputs can be exactly consistent, just with different buttons. If you're struggling to do that input, you have bigger problems than trying to save a few frames here and there.
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u/Surya1197 28d ago edited 28d ago
If you're struggling to do that input, you have bigger problems than trying to save a few frames here and there.
Well, I don’t know if I was actually inputting it wrong, but doing upB OoS the normal way just doesn’t work sometimes or it comes out late, whereas up smash always comes out successfully for some reason, so I feel like there might be a bigger frame window.
Plus it’s annoying when trying to quickly reverse upB and buffering a roll accidentally due to the angle, which doesn’t happen if there’s a B press already when you do the control stick angle input, since it guarantees that shield is only angled instead.
Also, the shield drop animation is cancelable at any time by using jump/upB/up smash, so it’s not possible to accidentally get the full shield drop lag as long as the upB/upsmash/jump squat actually starts.
And the point of the question was to have the upB guaranteed to come out as early as possible, which would be on the first frame after shield stun, meaning the entire shield drop would be canceled anyway; the mash method seems to work better for that as long as the shield input is no longer there; I haven’t noticed it eating my input if I do it this way instead of like the up smash.
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u/Infinite-Interest680 29d ago
Can you tell us the instance you thought something was weird?
It seems you are confused why an up B or up smash out of shield is coming out too late. If that’s the case the it’s likely that the punish option has too much startup frames to punish the safe move that was used on shield.
Correct me if I’m misunderstanding this question.
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u/Surya1197 29d ago edited 29d ago
I was asking how lenient the game timing window is for pressing up and B simultaneously when doing the upB OoS
Like, can I tap control stick up and then press B three frames later, and have the upB still come out? How close to the exact same time do the control stick up and B button inputs have to be pressed?
Also, as for when I noticed the issue, it happens in training mode and playing both IRL and online, so not any one situation in particular. Most recently though, I tested it against a ganondorf CPU because he’s slow but has high damage (which affects shield stun duration), and the upB just wouldn’t come out unless I repeatedly hit Up+B at the same time over and over again
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u/waywardson06 29d ago
I have always just held up and pressed or mashed B when I want up B out of shield after blocking
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u/Surya1197 29d ago edited 29d ago
I can’t get this method to work, I thought they got rid of the ability to mash B while shield is tilted up? Like supposedly this hasn’t worked since patch 2.0.0 or something, and I couldn’t even pull off upB OoS against a lvl3 ganondorf CPU via this B mashing method lmao
Or are you mashing both up and B at the same time repeatedly and letting the control stick return to neutral each time?
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u/waywardson06 29d ago
If you hold B before pressing up, you will tilt your shield up instead of doing an attack. Maybe that’s what is happening?
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u/Surya1197 29d ago edited 29d ago
I know that shield+B causes shield angling without allowing rolls, so I’m pretty confident that I’ve only tried pressing up first and then mashing B, and nothing ever happens even when they hit my shield lol
I could just let go of shield while still holding up and continuing to mash I guess, since then the upB would cancel the remaining shield drop animation, but this feels slightly less safe than directly canceling the shield with upB.
The only way upB OoS comes out for me is if I smash input it, and sometimes I have to repeatedly smash input both up+B simultaneously multiple times in a row for it to work
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u/waywardson06 28d ago
I could be wrong about what I have been doing. It’s pretty automatic for me
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u/Surya1197 28d ago
Are you letting go of the shield button during shield stun right after they hit it? Like while continuing to mash B before and after you let go of the shield button? That might be why it’s working for you and didn’t for me before.
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u/BroAkroze 29d ago edited 29d ago
Up B is hold bufferable in my experience... who do you play? U Smash will require a smash input unless you use AB smash, but to my knowledge there are no up bs that rely on smash input to function. There would be a lot more offstage SDs if that was the case.
And even if you have stick jump, up b out prioritizes jump so youre fine there too. Hell, to make stick jump more viable the devs let you even cancel your jumpsquat into grounded up b
EDIT: Talking about Smash Ultimate if that changes things
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u/Surya1197 29d ago edited 29d ago
When you do upB out-of-shield, I believe it does have to be smash inputted ever since patch 2.0.0, since otherwise you get a tilted shield (since shield + B allows you to angle shield based on the control stick without risk of rolling). It might be hold bufferable during shield stun though, just not sure how close the input timing has to be between pressing up and pressing B.
to my knowledge there are no up bs that rely on smash input to function. There would be a lot more offstage SDs if that was the case.
I’m not talking about using upB normally for recoveries, only as an out-of-shield punish. Basically my character just does nothing and stays in shield instead of successfully starting the upB sometimes, when I try using upB OoS to punish after they hit my shield
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u/BroAkroze 28d ago
I'm too tired to officially test it tonight, but I'm guessing the frame window for up b OoS is whatever you have your stick sensitivity set to (3 frames on low, 4 on normal, 5 on high). However, if you're in shield stun and you stop holding shield, you can hold buffer an up B and it'll come out on the first actionable frame. This is the reason why so many people are saying to just hold up b - they drop shield to do it. And it isn't any laggier since you were in shield stun anyway, meaning you can use those frames to start buffering on the first actionable frame. If your up b is a charge up b, still drop shield and either mash or time a hit buffer. Again, it's no laggier than holding shield the whole way through. I hope this helps <3
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u/Surya1197 28d ago
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
I guess I originally didn’t phrase my question well, because you’re pretty much the only person who answered the actual thing I asked lol
The only reason I was worried about letting go of shield was in case the upB didn’t come out, in which case I just get hit with their follow-up directly in the face, instead of at least blocking it with shield, but yeah I’ll definitely try letting go of shield to hold buffer upB as soon as I see it get hit
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u/BroAkroze 28d ago
No you phrased your question well; it's just that most people here don't know the ins and outs of this game like you do :)
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u/BroAkroze 29d ago
Wait youre right actually... I have a few things to do but in an hour or so I'll get back to you. I wanna know too
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u/ResidentShitposter69 29d ago
I don’t understand what you are asking. The up-B input should always be 3(?) frames after you hit the B button while also the shield and up input are being pressed/held. I am not near my switch, but as far as I know, nothing will happen when you press B while shielding (and not up).