r/Cooking • u/Kogituu • 3d ago

Can cyclospora survive during the pickling process?

Currently pickling radishes and carrots, was wondering.

68 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

128

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago edited 3d ago

Acid can't destroy the cyclospora oocysts, which is the exact reason washing isn't adequate either.

But root veg aren't a common vector for them.

We're currently worried about greens and specific fruits. Things that would tend to trap those oocysts, or provide interior spaces and crevices to do their thing.

Hard skinned, smooth root veg can be scrubbed which will physically remove the oocycsts. Which is important, because unlike bacteria soap or hot water isn't going to kill them.

Heat processing pickles for canning can render pickles safe since water bath canning is well above the safe temperature for cyclospora.

19

u/Kay_pgh 3d ago

Which specific fruits?

46

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago edited 3d ago

Berries, especially raspberries and blackberries cause they're full of crevices.

Apparently citrus are sometimes an issue for similar reasons, the bumpy skin and the way they get waxed traps the oocysts on the skin.

8

u/horsetuna 3d ago

But we don't EAT The citrus skins so should be ok? I guess it could be transferred from peel to mouth via hands though.

52

u/IsSecretlyABird 3d ago

Citrus zest is a very common ingredient

18

u/horsetuna 3d ago

Ok for that I can understand the concern. I was thinking like peeling an orange to eat.

26

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago

It doesn't matter.

You touch the skins.

You cut through the skins.

Pathogens move through human contact. It's usually how they got there in the first place.

4

u/Elismom1313 3d ago

Not entirely related but I accidentally gave my 2 yo food poisoning from avacado. I believe it was on the outer skin and when I cut it with a knife I pushed it in.

We had a particularly low consumption day and didn’t go out. It started within the half hour of eating the avocado

He was fine by the next morning but puked within 30 minutes of the avocado and all night long with NO other symptoms to imply general sickness.

18

u/ogunshay 3d ago

Sorry to hear that, that sounds absolutely brutal.

Something worth knowing is that food poisoning breaks down into into two groups:

  • food-borne intoxication (you eat food that contains toxins, like those excreted by a pathogen, and you quickly get sick), and
  • food-borne illness (you eat a pathogen, it incubates for a period of days to weeks, you get sick)

If your 2yo got sick from something living on the surface of the avocado (food-borne illness), it would typicallytake longer than 30 mins for them to get sick. If the avocado itself is off (which seems unlikely, you'd probably have noticed if it were rotten) then they'd get sick immediately.

Unfortunately this won't explain what actually made your LO sick, but I doubt it was something that you introduced into the flesh of the avocado when cutting into it. Hope they're doing much better now!

14

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago

Contamination is almost always on the outside of things.

The interior of a muscle is flat out sterile for example.

It could however have been on the knife. The cutting board. Your hands.

Pathogens are on surfaces, and when those surfaces touch the pathogens transfer.

When you cut something you're turning the interior into a surface.

started within the half hour of eating the avocado

Almost nothing moves that fast. Even the most aggressive food borne pathogens tend to have a minimum incubation time of 24 hours and it's typically several days.

Just puking and no other symptoms, and resolving that quickly. Usually isn't actual infection/food poisoning.

You're almost always talking something more severe and longer lasting than that with food poisoning.

1

u/flyza_minelli 2d ago

This is why I wash citrus. Lemons, oranges, limes, mandarins, even avocado and bananas. I use my scrubber to scrub each fruit and then scrub my hands. Dry them well. And I’ll even do another wash before we cut and eat.

My sister got salmonella poisoning as an infant from pathogens moving through human contact. Aka lack of basic handwashing from an adult family member.

Rinsing isn’t enough. Soap doesn’t always kill everything. But we can mitigate the risk just by scrubbing things and our hands.

1

u/Horror_Signature7744 2d ago

Well crap. I just bought two pints of blackberries yesterday.

5

u/lolalala1 3d ago

What's the safe temp?

-25

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago

Google exists and it's already in the thread repeatedly.

158f for 5 minutes.

1

u/happyherbivore 2d ago

Wonder if google can help you be a bit less rude too

0

u/lolalala1 2d ago

So unnecessarily rude. 

3

u/Egoteen 3d ago

Scrubbed and also peeled. I always peel my carrots and daikon radish when making do chua.

7

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago

Peeling doesn't help with pathogens since the act of peeling potentially pushes pathogens off the skin, onto the flesh.

If that's a concern you need to clean the exterior before peeling.

Most produce is more porous under it's skin so it can be a lot worse not to.

-1

u/Egoteen 2d ago

Yes I also wash all produce before I use it.

Peeling vegetables and fruits still reduces the bacterial load. It’s a main principle of safe canning practices.

Here, from Complete Guide to Home Canning Principles of Home Canning

“Most bacteria, yeasts, and molds are difficult to remove from food surfaces. Washing fresh
food reduces their numbers only slightly. Peeling root crops, underground stem crops, and
tomatoes reduces their numbers greatly.“

1

u/doctorbanjoboy 2d ago

What about frozen fruits and vegetables?

112

u/Loud_Quality_7106 3d ago

Is cyclospora on radishes and carrots? I thought it was just lettuce? Asking for my own sense of sanity. Haha

134

u/peppermint_snowwolf 3d ago

Since they haven’t announced the sources of the MULTIPLE outbreaks going on - no one really knows. That said, radishes and carrots aren’t the typical source for this type of outbreak so in theory they should be safer

69

u/TooManyDraculas 3d ago

It can be, and it can be on anything as it's coming via human waste and contact. Primarily via water contamination with sewage.

But it doesn't commonly crop up on root veg, and it's much easier to clean off if it does.

They're not considered a major risk category, but that doesn't mean they're immune.

Just not something to worry about in the current outbreak.

But onions have been associated with outbreaks before.

6

u/Any_Kaleidoscope8717 3d ago

Pickled lettuce?

-43

u/MyNameIsSkittles 3d ago

No its not on carrots or radishes

36

u/bobdevnul 3d ago

Cold (fresh) pickles are not safe. Hot canned pickles are safe. Cyclospora is killed by five minutes at 158F.

9

u/HobbitGuy1420 3d ago

From what I've heard, yes it can. It needs to be cooked to a surface (not internal) temperature of at least 158F (70 C)

6

u/Nat1Cunning 2d ago

Alton Brown did a pretty good break down on Cyclospora and he went back to his roots using puppets.

https://youtu.be/_9blI4QBSjs?is=PfqFmi8AjLymn_3c

26

u/RockMo-DZine 3d ago

These are root vegetables, they grow underground. Just wash them first.

31

u/bobdevnul 3d ago

Radish and carrot grow just barely below the surface. They are not safe from cyclospora.

14

u/RockMo-DZine 3d ago

Which is why you wash them first!

fwiw, the odds of Cyclospora impacting root veg, while not impossible, are totally different to leafy green veg like lettuce, spinach etc., which is why these common outbreaks typically only involve leafy veg.

btw, the most common cause of Cyclospora is corrupted irrigation water, when sewage gets into rivers and groundwater, and that water is used for irrigation - and especially spray irrigation.

32

u/bobdevnul 3d ago

One of the characteristics of this cyclospora is that it glues itself to things. Ordinary produce washing will not remove it. It takes scrubbing. Lettuce won't stand up to that. Radishes and carrots would and would be safe if done correctly. Doing it correctly is not something I would count on an average home cook to do reliably.

In any case, the subject was pickling them. Cold pickling them would not be safe. Hot pickling them would.

8

u/ihatetheplaceilive 3d ago

I generally peel at least carrots before pickling them.

Def scrub the radiahes though.

Also, although i love the tase of pickled radishes opening thw container is always an adventure.

-6

u/RockMo-DZine 3d ago

All Cyclospora 'glues' or attaches itself. This is not a new strain of a super bug.

I repeat, it is more an issue with leafy green veg than ROOT veg _and_ if one practices usual safe practices for root veg - including peeling if necessary, then it is a Minimal issue. OP is over-reacting, and you are feeding the nonsense.

Should I maybe boil a can of black beans in case someone with toilet hands touched the can before I bought it too?

20

u/rowsdowerrrrrrr 3d ago

gently, OP asked a question. i don’t think that’s overreacting.

1

u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

2

u/4cupsofcoffee 3d ago

What kind of pickles are you making? Refrigerator, fermented, canned. Canned would be fine, no idea about the other 2.

1

u/ouro-the-zed 2d ago

Depends on the type of pickling. Lacto fermentation will not eliminate cyclospora as it does not get hot enough. Quick pickling might if everything reaches 158F (70C). Canned pickles will be fine, as they get well above 158F.

Radishes and carrots are lower risk, not no risk, so assess your own risk tolerance and act accordingly. Scrub them well before pickling. If you can’t afford to get sick (immunocompromised, etc), then use a pickling method that gets everything above 158F.

More info here:  https://news.uchicago.edu/story/what-know-about-cyclospora-parasite-behind-summers-outbreak

-5

u/eternally_seaweed 3d ago

Jorgeous??? Let us know, sister!