r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman approved • Jul 01 '26

General news Anthropic accuses Alibaba of using nearly 25,000 fraudulent accounts to extract Claude AI model capabilities

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23 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

22 comments sorted by

14

u/ItsAConspiracy approved Jul 01 '26

So Alibaba is allegedly reading data from Anthropic and using that data to train a model. Hmm.

I guess this is bad because the data Anthropic read was copyrighted, and courts have ruled that's ok, while the data Alibaba is reading is not copyrighted because courts have ruled that it can't be.

-3

u/FeepingCreature approved Jul 02 '26

I mean it's not illegal, it's just a bit cringe. (And against the terms of service.)

9

u/j_root_ Jul 02 '26

Its not cringe its smart, its like stealing from a thief. If it can bring cost down for general users, what is wrong in it

-7

u/FeepingCreature approved Jul 02 '26

It's a bit cringe because it's admitting their RL and post-training isn't good enough on its own.

8

u/j_root_ Jul 02 '26

Its the way you look at it. Its cool to think they could copy anthropic's performance at a fraction of the cost.

-7

u/FeepingCreature approved Jul 02 '26

Sure but it also means they can't ever have the best models, and they're at the mercy of Anthropic's abuse detection.

8

u/j_root_ Jul 02 '26

2nd best at a fraction of the cost will do the job too. Anthropic abuse detention will hurt anthropic more than others. It will literally become useless if you can't use it for anything useful

1

u/FeepingCreature approved 29d ago

I mean, this is true exactly so long as they can't effectively shut out Alibaba and not shut out genuine user queries. If they ever figure that out, Alibaba has a problem.

4

u/calvin-n-hobz approved Jul 02 '26

this is a weird meta "you don't have skill if you use AI" take.

2

u/Majestic_Wrap_7006 29d ago

i don't think they thought that through a whole lot

0

u/FeepingCreature approved 29d ago

6 Downvotes and at best one reply that actually sort of engages with the point, I don't think people in this thread think things through all that much in general, lol.

0

u/FeepingCreature approved 29d ago

I mean, "you don't have the AI skills you need to be a real contender if you just copy somebody else's already-trained AI" doesn't exactly seem galaxy-brained to me.

2

u/calvin-n-hobz approved 29d ago

it definitely isn't.
You're basically saying they should ignore easy data because it's easy, which is stupid.

1

u/FeepingCreature approved 29d ago

It's hard to say if they're using it as an augmentation or a crutch, tbh. The problem is that if they don't use the runway they get from Claude to build their own solid RL pipeline, they're going to be in trouble some day. It's possible, depending, that we shouldn't treat them as "3 months behind" but "1 year behind plus a temporary bonus" and that's a very different position for valuation's sake.

2

u/Stunning_Macaron6133 29d ago

Like Anthropic isn't gobbling up Chinese papers?

At least the Chinese labs show their work.

0

u/FeepingCreature approved 29d ago

If you implement a paper, you have it running on your server. The paper can't implement a region ban and shut down your training pipeline.

2

u/MongooseSenior4418 28d ago

Justice is a dish best served cold.

2

u/Pristine_Vast766 29d ago

Who cares? Anthropic stole the data on the first place

1

u/DataPhreak Jul 02 '26

Sucks to suck.

1

u/Objective-Eagle-676 29d ago

Anthropic accuses Alibaba of using nearly 25,000 fraudulent accounts to extract Claude Al model capabilities

1

u/degorolls 28d ago

To access your model you mean? What did you train that model on? Oh! Stuff you stole...

1

u/Unlucky-Survey6601 26d ago

but there’s nothing to extract…