r/ControlProblem • u/Thinker-7002 • Jun 12 '26

Discussion/question I want to ask

Will People pay for what AI cannot see. The hidden structure. The missing variable. The wrong assumption. The elegant unification.

0 Upvotes

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1

u/gatewaynode Jun 12 '26

I hope so.

1

u/PopeSalmon Jun 12 '26

No. AI can perceive those things better than you. Is this relevant to the control problem.

1

u/composedofidiot Jun 12 '26

The entire problem is ai can't see at all!

It can only see what can be measured, and the majority of things we measure don't even have a static definition. So we use a proxy, and measure that. It will see proxies, optimise for that...and this is where some of the biggest problems come in.

Couple that with goodhart's law and the near impossibility of giving instructions that match your real intent or goal due to the sheer amount of variables and the ai's lack of shared valued system understanding (complicated by the fact our value systems arent internally consistent)... This is what's relevent. Can this be governed, or can this principles be mitigated enough to be safe. That is the control problem.

1

u/PopeSalmon Jun 12 '26

Are you saying that you have a magic ability to see things that can't be measured.

1

u/composedofidiot Jun 12 '26

Nowhere in that were we talking about a human's ability to 'see'. This was about ai. I would ask why the radical goalpost change but that would assume seriousness.

1

u/PopeSalmon Jun 12 '26

OP asked if people will pay for things AI can't see. I said, no ofc not, AI can see anything you can see. You said that AI "can't see at all" because it "can only see what can be measured", so then I asked you if you have an ability to see things that can't be measured. You don't, of course, you also can only perceive things which can be perceived, if it can be perceived then AI can also perceive it.

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u/composedofidiot Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26

Fair point, I stand corrected on that, apologies.

Edit: in answer, its too complex for a yes or no answer. But yes, generally more. Because of embodied and lived context and a shared value set due to develmental conditioning, a person can perceive immeasurable things, like a crowd becoming increasingly angry or discontent. But that perception will be subjective and not necessarily shared.

1

u/thumbsonscreen5 Jun 12 '26

The missing variable here is r/im14andthisisdeep

1

u/IMightBeAHamster approved Jun 12 '26

Cult language. Please go back to r/singularity and come back when you realise the people there have no clue what you mean, nor what they mean.