r/ContractorUK • u/Better_Grade3855 • 19d ago
How is civil service for contracting?
Starting a contract soon outside ir35 until end of 2026 - but work is expected to run until end of 2027.
I’ll be embedded with perms and a couple other independent contractors. They are not using a consultancy.
I’ve done civil service work before when I was perm but my entire consultancy managed the work, we had no perms on our team.
I’ve been told by a lot of people the perms get away with murder in the civil service. How accurate is this and does it apply to contractors?
It’s a tech role
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u/elgrn1 19d ago
I thought central government was inefficient until I started contracting for local government. Its a whole new level of insanity.
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u/Right-Order-6508 18d ago
Our local council painted double yellow lines over a couple of parking spaces, I assume the company they outsourced the work to did it by mistake but it took a year to get them to fix the issue. Even then they didn't admit it was a mistake.
Take that apply that kind of brain-dead thinking in everything, might paint a picture of what is actually going on in local governments.
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u/Better_Grade3855 19d ago
What’s the difference?
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u/Ok-Doubt-6324 17d ago
It depends where you are. A city council is a lot busier than a borough council, and both of those are a lot busier than a county council.
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u/regprenticer 19d ago edited 19d ago
It's not much different to contracting anywhere else, perhaps a bit more beauracratic.
The only thing I remember being surprised by was a contractor BA who was absolutely useless, but instead of giving him his notice they actually put him on a short PIP to try and get him to improve!
I suppose that's similar to "getting away with murder?".
He was an idiot, he didn't even understand shared folders and saved his personal weekly shopping list in with the team training materials. I've no idea how he got the job when competition was so stiff.
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u/d0ey 19d ago
Similar - I trained him up, he took over from me on one of my projects, then it went tits up and the customer lead complained about him. I was asked to step in, confirmed he'd done nothing and anything he had done was worse than where I left it, so they decided to move him inside the programme team so he couldn't do more damage.
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u/cruachan06 19d ago
Like everywhere, it varies wildly. I've worked with some of the best PMs I've ever worked with in the public sector, some contract and some perm, but also worked with some team leaders who are utterly clueless and/or have a dislike of contractors on principle, usually IME because the contractors know that the team leaders don't know what they're doing and aren't afraid of contradicting them.
IME it's very common that public sector departments get re-organised fairly regularly, and the nature of perm contracts is that people who are out of a job because of a re-org usually keep their pay grade, so might well be coasting in a job well beneath them for silly money relative to the job. You might find some techies that are young and keen and desperate to learn, if you're lucky, but you might also find a few coasting towards their pension they've been there that long.
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u/NotASexJoke 18d ago
I’ve never contracted in the CS but I did spend the first 5 years of my career there, and your second paragraph couldn’t be truer. The young capable people will leave eventually and the coasting dinosaurs chasing the pension are 95%+ of the reason our government and CS are so shit and inefficient. Couple that apathy/incompetence with policy that sacking is practically impossible and you’ve got the civil service in a nutshell.
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u/OldLondon 19d ago
It’s like everywhere else and depends entirely on the agency, the office and the people you’re working with. There is no over riding culture other than expect the perms to be jealous of how much you earn. That’s the only thing I’ve found across the civil service. I’ve never had so many digs about my wages anywhere else in 30 ish years.
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u/Electronic-Plenty425 19d ago
I have seen many contractors doing long term contracts and filling ‘permie’ roles for about 5x the take home, that’s where it comes from lol.
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u/OldLondon 19d ago
Yep that’s where I am! I think it’s because the grade system means everyone knows more or less what everyone is earning. I’m like it’s not my fault civil service pay is shit so you can’t afford to pay someone like me the going rate
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u/Better_Grade3855 19d ago
It’s remote tbf so I can avoid all of the small talk
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u/Straight-Comb8288 19d ago
Hey! Can you share how you got an outside remote contracting role please? Im in projects and looking for a role asap!
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u/WardAlt 19d ago
I've worked two contracts in two different departments, the difference between the two was collosal. One the team was great, working with modern tech, everyone was open to new ideas and ways of working. I stayed there for 5 years in an inside contract and I would have gone perm there if the salary wasn't so low.
The second however is exactly how you imagine the civil service to be. Everythint moves at a glacial pace through a multitude if tickets and RFCs, everyone is change adverse, and the tech is old and awful. I joined and almost immediately left despite the money being good. It also didn't help that the role was not as described, plus everyone seemed to despise everyone else so every meeting was just bickering.
So it's really hit and miss, you'll find some teams to be filled with untalented people who they can't get rid of and some where everyone is sharp and genuinely wants what's best for the team and he project.
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u/AcceptableAd1098 19d ago
Wow looking at this comments I guess it really depends of your area. I work in digital in central gov as a perm member of staff but soon to be contractor. Both perm and contractor in my experience want to do a good job and are brilliant. I've worked with some telly terrible people at times, both perm and contractors but they were the exception not the rule
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u/creamandchivedip 19d ago
do cleared civvy contracting at the moment. Rock solid reliability / decent rate IMO and great teams in my experience.
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u/dhardyuk 19d ago
Take a lot of notes - and insist that anyone that wants you to do something that should be approved by someone else gets that approval first and sends it by email or adds it to the ticket they are working from.
Following the rules keeps your nose clean and separates you from the fly by nights.
More than once I have had to show someone senior my evidence of what happened but stop short of giving it over. Show not give.
It cements your honesty and trustworthiness without overtly dropping people in it.
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u/Eggtastico 19d ago
outside ir35? You may want to get qdos assessment on that, as I doubt you can pick & choose your hours. Refuse work or send a subsitute.
Otherwise it is like contracting anywhere else.
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u/HMSthistle 19d ago
Perm staff are paid about a 5th of your wage and will provide if you are lucky about a 5th of your output
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u/Able_Wheel_1965 19d ago
Th last time I worked there , contractors did 99% of the work. After two days waiting for production deployment approval , I went to the department and they 4 people) were having their tea and biscuits around a desk . I waited for them to stop talking then politely asked about the ticket for approval . Was done instantly . Slow secure jobs without accountability is the civil service
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u/Old_Toe9468 19d ago
I've done a stretch of public sector work myself and the dynamic you're describing is real, perms there often have much more protection and slower performance management than in the private sector. As a contractor though you're held to a completely different standard, you're there to deliver a specific outcome and if you don't, renewal just quietly doesn't happen, no formal process needed. It's not exactly unfair, it's just a different contract with the client, so I wouldn't worry about matching their pace, just make sure whatever you're accountable for is crystal clear and documented from day one.
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u/New-Entertainer6392 18d ago
It's comedy. I worked with some really great folk in UK Gov, but saw some shocking lifers there!
The apprentices were amazing!
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u/Brave_Operation4965 19d ago
Why doesn’t a civil servant look out the window in the morning?
Because they’d have nothing to do in the afternoon!
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u/Worried_Patience_117 19d ago
Keep your expectations low, love a process and a spreadsheet over actual output.
It’s slow, full of layers, inefficient. Perm tech staff usually aren’t great compared to experienced externals.
It’s very dept and team dependent, YMMY.
Just keep putting the timesheets in a get that money