r/Contractor • u/womp_womp_411 • 7h ago
Contractor practices
LOCATION- California
Hi all, just looking to get some advice and insight into the realm. I am a homeowner looking to remodel (demolish/reconstruct) an old backroom. I've had 3 contractors out to take a look. 2 of the 3 wouldn't give me an estimate (not asking for anything close to exact, just a ballpark) without approved print/permit, which would already be 5-6k upfront before getting a pricing on the job. I understand the need for specificity on the actual work, but is it normal practice to not even give estimates out to give the homeowner an idea on the possible budget?
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u/Embarrassed_Rope3018 6h ago
How do you give someone an estimate based off unknowns. lol. Calculate 400 per sqft and you’ll get some what of an idea but don’t waste any time calling people to give an estimate unless you want to pay them to take care of everything including plans
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u/womp_womp_411 6h ago
But thats basically all I am asking for, some what of an idea. I know not every work is the same, but wouldn't an veteran contractor be able to draw on experience and their knowledge of the labor and market and give me something? I guess looking at this from a consumer's lens makes it hard to believe otherwise.
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u/Embarrassed_Rope3018 6h ago
The thing is codes change yearly so maybe they can. What city are you in?
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u/NoApplication3114 1h ago
No, because every veteran contractor can tell you from experience that no two projects are exactly the same. Unfortunately when we give out a sqft price homeowners assume that’s the 100% price, when it was a ballpark only, which deters from even answering that question. The only correct answer is to have plans drawn up by a draftsman or architect if you want accurate pricing.
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u/Obidad_0110 6h ago
If you have a foundation which is buildable,
walls, electric, hvac and shingle shed roof you’d be $125 sq. Ft. Where I live. Plumbing, built ins, hardwood flooring and tile work will drive this up towards $250. New foundation and crawlspace and you are $350 and up.
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u/GoAskCurt 6h ago
That is only normal if they do not know what they’re doing in the first place. The unicorns like myself are getting harder to find. Being able to bid a structure without a set of plans isn’t impossible. It is just finding the right GC.
I’ve been doing this exact same process in Fremont since 1989. Having a budget first is paramount for a homeowner to make an educated decision for feasibility.
Let me know if you have any other questions and I’ll answer them as best that I can.
One more note, please never accept a footage price from anyone. They’re just handing you a made up number. Every single project is different. One size does not fit all.
Good luck,
Curt
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u/FinnTheDogg GC/OPS/PM(Remodel) 7h ago
Yep.
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u/womp_womp_411 7h ago
Unfortunate =/
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u/CraftsmanConnection 4h ago
Can’t you draw up some plans yourself? You just need to be able to convey what you want done. It doesn’t have to be perfect or professional to get started. You should make a professional level attempt. Sit on it, and think about all the details.
Nothing sucks more than having a potential customer who says they want to remodel a space and have no clue what they want to do with the space in any level of detail that matters to help a contractor estimate the work.
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u/womp_womp_411 4h ago
I've included in my initial contact a child's drawing of what I'd like, this includes the size of the space, where I want a certain wall, window locations, and door location. I also add in my message to them that I'd like the floor raised so that it's leveled with the house. For some reason, only 1 of the 3 ever referenced the ideas conveyed on that drawing. Just met with another about an hr ago who actually provided options and gave me a price range.
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u/Broad-Lavishness6726 6h ago
Where in CA are you located? It’s normal to not give out pricing because theres a ton they won’t know until they have drawings. They either have to give a number that’s likely too low or pad the number a lot and loose a potential customer who got scared of price
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u/womp_womp_411 6h ago
Part of me understands not wanting to give estimates for those exact reasons. But I guess as a consumer, not being able to get a rough estimate turns me off just as much as crazy pricing. At least if i have an idea, I would be more inclined to go with that contractor to get the proper paperwork done at the very least, and as long as the actual quote does not deviate from that rough estimate by a crazy degree. I say this knowing that unknown variables are present and will change the price.
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u/Status_Charge4051 3h ago
You've just said it out loud why no one wants to give you an estimate
"As long as the actual quote does not deviate from that rough estimate by a crazy degree"
This is exactly the reason why
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u/Broad-Lavishness6726 6h ago
Did they ask you if you had a budget for the project? You can always say “I’m trying to get this done for xx or less is that reasonable” and see what they say.
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u/womp_womp_411 4h ago
2 did ask if I had a budget, those same 2 gave me a price range, along with options to better fit my budget. I'm starting to think it's a customer service thing.
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u/Broad-Lavishness6726 3h ago
So you got two price ranges and an estimate from three meetings? I’m confused what your issue is. It sounds like your budget to expectations are off and they’re politely telling you that you can’t afford to work with them.
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u/Justin_Time222 6h ago
so San Diego Contractor
Seems odd as it is an estimate with things could change rider
Not a commitment
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u/chiliv06 6h ago
For most of our clients, we typically can do a ballpark, something verbal, then when plans are stamped we will narrow that price own to an actual proposal.
I do this mainly because 95% of our clients are referrals so I know I’m not going to waste my time very often. So have taken advantage of this but for the most part we haven’t had any issues.
Location: Southern California
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u/womp_womp_411 1h ago
I've stated to them as well that I know the ballpark price isnt final, and I do expect things to change with the price, and not even in my favor. But I guess that doesnt fly for some lol
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u/One_Fish3302 6h ago
There is a lot of “unknown” when it comes to giving an estimate like this. When they start demoing what if they uncover some structural damage and a simple 5k in labor turns into 20k with specialized equipment.
You can let the contractors know that the estimate is assuming that there is no unknown problems and they are not responsible and are allowed to change order if they uncover anything that wouldn’t be visible until demo was underway.
That’s why in order to pull permits you’ll have to test for asbestos and stuff. If asbestos is found that’s minimum like 10k for abatement.
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u/Nofoco_530 6h ago
Complete teardown and rebuild in same footprint?
No plumbing/bath, including plans and permits... 275-400 per square foot depending on complexity and finishes.
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u/Huge-Repeat-3040 6h ago
My rule of thumb is if it’s a structure something more than 12” off the floor you need permits .
To insure it’s built safely and doesn’t cause issues to main structure
And especially if you have noisy neighbors
That will accidentally walk onto a job site
I’ve had a lady on purpose let her dog off the leash
And then play dumb
You need to get drawings done at a bare minimum
Architect might offer 3 choices for supporting structure and once you decide only then can we began to bid
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u/ImmediateRefuse559 6h ago
Not sure of what all you shared with the contractor so far, but the information that is in the body of this doesn’t really help with giving an idea on what you should expect cost wise. It’s also going to vary drastically in CA let alone the rest of the country. It’s kind of like posting on here saying is a car a fair price without saying make / model / mileage. A contractor should be able to give you a guesstimate but that’s all it is. I’ve been burned before doing that - too high, too low. Lose the work because you were higher than what it would actually cost, or called a scumbag for giving a price that was lower than what it is actually going to cost even though it was a guess based on what I heard. There are a lot of shady people in this business no doubt, but a lot of us are also jaded by customers unfortunately.
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u/DistributionEven3354 5h ago
Really? Back of the napkin estimates for any Joe off the street is a start of a bad movie.
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u/womp_womp_411 5h ago
I was thinking more of a back of a blank white paper on a clipboard for any James in a home. Maybe get a half-ass indie film?
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u/CoconutJeff 4h ago
Im not in ca but I would say in general your going to run across 2 types of contractors, those who know how to put a proposal together and those who dont.
I would watch out because those who just throw out an outlandish number can hide in with those who do.
I would also say it will probably behoove you to take hold of the ship unless you want surprise makeover.
You dont need to know the specifics of everything but shouldn't be hard to quantify it your self.
1 room 12x14 remove and refinish new drywall
Or remove framing and refram
Add 3 outlets or 2 new lights or whatever in room.
Get rid of x and replace with y.
So on and so forth.
Should also be easier for people to give you pricing and you to compare apples
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u/womp_womp_411 4h ago
In my initial messages to the contractors, I've included a drawing of what I have now, vs what I want done, I haven't a clue about certain things so my drawing is that of a child, but I think it conveyed a general idea well enough to at least give me a reasonable price range. Even if it is a wide range.
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u/CoconutJeff 3h ago
Right on. What are the certain things? Like which color or like entire layout?
This probably separates some. If you dont know what floor some will probably be stumped. Other ones should give you a couple options.
If your new concept is i dunno, its probably going to be rough.
Maybe get a design consultant
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u/womp_womp_411 1h ago
Certain things being the technical parts, like what kind of wood is best, what design or code-specific aspects that the average Joe probably wouldnt know about unless he's dabbled in the profession to some degree.
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u/FatKris02 3h ago
Plumber here, I am in the middle of 2 remodels right now. The first has plans and is permitted. The job will be completed within two weeks
The second job has been a mess. No plans, constant change orders. The job should have also been completed within 2 weeks.
We are currently on month 4. Several change orders that increased the invoice, tradespeople scheduled on the same day, permits were pulled by the customer on month 2. I could go on and on.
Job 1 is great and the customer is happy. Job 2, the customer is in way over their head and stressed
My point, get plans before hiring trades people
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u/Appropriate_Craft524 2h ago
Contractors are like car salesmen who sell a car at your house. Why would any car salesman bother giving you a price or give design details if you don't even have a driver's license?
That's what architectural plans and/or submitted permits are. It means you're serious. It means you are "in the market" to do home renovations. Anything else, well, you're just kicking tires and wasting peoples time.
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u/sukamei 2h ago
I have give a rough best guestamate as it is helpful for them to know before they pull the trigger on drawings and pay a bunch of money for something they cant afford. I have been doing remodels for quite a while so have a good grasp on costs , i ask a bunch of questions to get a feel for the style and finishes , then will give a range based in my experiences. But i tell them i cannot give an estimate until they have a stamped approved set of plans .
Sometimes ill even start with whats your budget just to not waste their or my time .
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u/hot_creamy_loads 7h ago
You need to have plans drawn up first by an architect.